 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: lynne
Date: 2001-07-24 22:42
i am trying to get a value on a H. Bettoney silver or nickel plated clarinet. Model #U889(?)
Patent # 1705634. i know nothing about these except what i have read in the other bulletins but i can't seem to get any kind of price ranges.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-07-25 00:24
Your best bet is to check the eBay listings to get a general idea of selling prices.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-07-25 13:20
Not much value, I should think. You might check our past postings for the email address of Jim Lande. Jim has done a fair amount of work with metal clarinets in restoration, etc and wouild be a resource, I think.. Mark is correct that eBay is a good indicator of value.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-07-25 13:25
Unless its a "Silva-Bet" the value is low depending on its condition and what repairs it may need. Search the Phorum for Bettoney, lots of mileage!.. Believe the patent No is 1,705, 6 0 4, off the top of my head!!. Don
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-07-25 13:37
Lynne -
Dee and Jim know about all the Bettoney models and will probably correct or add to what I say, but here goes.
Bettoney made a number of models of metal clarinet. The plated ones have a moderate value. For example, the 3-Star model that's on eBay now at http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1449911724 should go for around $100. But see below.
Bettoney also made a solid silver model called the Silva-Bet that was a very nice instrument. These come up on eBay maybe once a month and usually go for $200-300 depending on condition.
Occasionally the top-of-the-line H. Bettoney silver instrument appears. These were artist-quality. My teacher Alexander Williams played an Eb H. Bettoney in the New York Philharmonic.
The kicker is that most metal Bettoneys shipped with Chedeville mouthpieces, stenciled "H. Bettoney." While they were not the handmade Chedevilles that go for $500 and up, they were the real thing and have considerable value. The listing for the 3-Star on eBay says it has one of these mouthpieces, which, if it's in decent condition, is worth several times what the instrument is worth. Old mouthpieces are always a crapshoot, however. The ones that came on low-end metal clarinets are almost always battered beyond recognition. The instrument on eBay looks nice, so it may be worth going after for the mouthpiece, but until you actually see it, it's not worth bidding much more than the value of the instrument.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-07-25 15:13
Excellent point, Ken, I'll have to find my Bet mp and try it again!
Don
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-07-25 16:00
Ken, did the H. Bettoney Silver/Artist clarinet have any particular name or model number reference? Thanks. mw
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-07-25 17:44
mw -
I have a silver Bettoney Eb, which just says "H. Bettoney." It was a former armed forces instrument and has "U.S." engraved on the otherwise plain bell. I've seen one like it on eBay with some scrollwork engraving on the bell. Dee or Jim will know better than I do exactly what the top models have as a model name.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2001-07-26 02:27
0) I absolutely love Silva Bet metal clarinets and have restored 8 including an Eb, an A, an almost full boehm, and a Bb Albert. No clunkers in the bunch. Much as I love them, there is no question that the mouthpieces are far more valuable.
1) I think most everything said above is accurate. I have a little bit of Bettoney literature and see no reference to either solid silver models or to an "Artiste" model. (There was a sneezy posting long ago from someone who tried a Haynes and a Silva Bet and much preferred the latter. the Haynes were solid silver. Perhaps this reference has been condensed a little.) The Silva bets were silver plated over "white metal" which was mostly nickel. Penzel Muller offered an Artiste model. Bottom line: i am pretty sure that the Silva Bet was the top model, at least for most of the years Cundy Bettoney sold metal clarinets. (1925 to some time in the 1940s)
2) I think that the Silva Bet models usually had a serial number leading with an "S" or maybe with an "A".
3) Bettoney sold a lot of metal clarinets to the military (as did H.N. White of Silver King fame.) Some that have appeared on eBay have been virtually identical to the "named" pro models. I am certain that many were in fact the pro models, but sold at a discount and therefore without the model name. I would bet that Ken's is a Silva Bet.
4) Some Silva Bets were sold with the straight (one piece) barrel, but most were sold with a big fat adjustible barrel. The Silva Bets were relatively heavy. (Without the mouthpiece, my Bb silva bet is noticably heavier than my metal Buffet with a mouthpiece.) The Eefers were not offered with adjustible barrels.
5) The Columbia model was the 'intermediate' offering. The Columbia, by the way, was made out of the same white metal as the Silva Bet. I just sawed through a post on a junker (to free a key) and went through the plating on the body as well. The student models were plated over brass.
6) In the 1930s, the Silva bet sold for $135 and up, depending on features. The Columbia sold for $80. The Cadet sold for $45. I am assuming that the 3 Stars (which appear to be student models and many of which were actually stenciled by Bettoney) sold for a similar price. Actually, you can get these horns for about the same prices today on eBay.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-07-26 19:41
Jim -
Actually, I wrote the Klarinet posting on playing a Haynes and a Bb/A pair of H. Bettoneys (they didn't say "Silva-Bet). See http://www.sneezy.org/Databases/Logs/1999/01/000696.txt . Charlie Ponte told me they were solid silver, and he, as much as anybody, was in a position to know.
It's long ago, so I don't remember for sure whether the Bettoneys had the fat, screw-adjustable barrels, but I think they did. My Eb does not, but there's a thin inner sleeve on the barrel that runs down the inside of the main bore, which serves the same purpose.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2001-07-26 23:22
I know that many makers offered an option for solid silver keys. I am guessing that
little of the work was automated, so there is no reason why they couldn't have made
a few solid silver specials. The concensus on Klarinet seems to be that it would
make no difference in the tone, which implies that they wouldn't have made very
many. Well, there are ways to test if one ever gets a lead on one that might be solid.
I have to say, after sawing through the post on the Columbia model, it easily could be
mistaken solid silver. The freshly cut metal all looks fairly silvery to my poor eyes. Maybe I need to get my wife to examine it in better light.
Interesting about the barrel on the eefer. (Again, an indication that it was a top
model.) My barrel is a simple design with most of the plating worn off. I wonder if
mine was a replacement, or if it got switched. I think mine came from a collection
that had a couple eefers.
cheers
jim
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