 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Natalie
Date: 2001-07-22 22:23
I teach clarinet lessons at a few high schools and junior high schools and I am always frustrated with the really bad bass clarinets that my students have to work with. I sometimes can't even play anything above a G. Anyways, I have a student who is interested in getting a good used bass clarinet. I prefer the top of the line Selmers, but I don't know how to find a used one. I don't know a lot about Bass so I'm also open to other suggestions on good bass clarinets. What do most pros use?
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Author: Francesca
Date: 2001-07-23 18:34
Most pros use basses that have the extension to low C. I won't mention brands, in fear of starting a war. If possible, contact the nearest military base around your town. I know that my school bought several instruments from the air force band and they were kept in top playing condition. Hope this helps!
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-07-23 19:07
Most pros plays Selmer and Buffet bass clarinets, and some play Leblancs. Yamahas are relatively well-regarded, but I don't know if pros play them in large numbers. How much can this student (i.e. his parents) spend? The top-of-the-line low-C bass clarinets run about $5K new, and good used ones would be at least half that much. Do junior-high and high-school students REALLY need low-C capability? I certainly didn't when I was in school (not even in college), nor do I need the capability often even now. For relatively good, reasonably inexpensive wood bass clarinets that would be plenty adequate for junior/senior high students and which are readily available used, you might look into the Leblanc 400 and wood Noblet low-Eb bass clarinets. You should be able to find decent used ones for around $1000. Or, a new plastic Vito or Yamaha bass would play well for around the same one-grand price, unless the student MUST HAVE a wood instrument. The point is, although some people will disagree, I don't think it makes sense for everyone, at every skill level, to have the absolute best instrument. Certainly I'd recommend spending money on a good mouthpiece, and having a good technician regulate whatever bass clarinet is obtained --- but it's absurd for a junior-high school student to be playing on a Buffet 1193 or Selmer 37. My flak jacket is on ------ flame away, other respondents!!
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2001-07-23 19:40
Natalie,
Dave won't tell you this (or maybe he can't because it would be self advertising?) but he could be a large part of your solution. Get with him and see what is going on the eBay auctions. With his advice I was able to get a R.Malerne Bass, (Conn Stencil) off of the auction for a fair price. He totally refurbished it it even had a broken key) , refaced the mouthpiece, straightened the neck to help the tone, etc., did lots of other things and now I have a bass that anyone would be proud to own (except maybe a Buffet WOOD snob--as mine is a hard rubber one) at a very good price. I'm just a "student" also, but a much older one.
Bob A
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Author: Stephen Froehlich
Date: 2001-07-23 20:00
Natalie, you have a tricky proposition primarily because bass clarinet keywork can't really take a beating without getting pretty bent. I've heard good opinions on both the Vito/Yamaha and the Bundy/Buescher models. As a beginner, my school had Vitos that were just fine.
On most beginner horns built relatively recently have a double register key for Bb(activated by the A key), whereas most intermediate and pro horns extend this such that the lower register hole is open for clarion D, C#, C, B (right hand ring finger) in addition to Bb.
All of these register keys seem to work off of a stonger spring/weaker spring concept and are fairly hard to adjust properly, not to mention that each maker has their own variation on this concept. This is why a good tech is usually required to fix these.
All of this being said, how do you guarentee getting a good beginner horn? I'm afraid I have no simple answers. This is what play testing is all about. There is a sneezy regular by the name of Dave Spiegelthal who restores old clarinets and he's primarily a Bass player. He's out of Virginia. I bought a bass from him this last January and have been quite pleased. You can trust him to sell you a well adjusted bass.
Beyond that, I'd avoid eBay in this kind of situation and go with a commercial vendor. See what the locals have. The schools should have just unloaded their extra horns, so they might have one. Beyond that, some catalog vendors have a used section.
A school Vito or Bundy is not out of the question after an overhaul and with a good mouthpiece. I often found myself with little choice but to take the school bass in for regular service at my parents' expense, however this was preferable to purchase. As for good mouthpiece, the "5RV" type standard is the Selmer C*, however the Bundy equivalent is fine by most accounts and you can get a Roger Garrett hand made bass mouthpiece for a fairly reasonable price.
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Author: Natalie
Date: 2001-07-23 20:06
I'm sure this student doesn't need a top of the line, but the school I teach at is very particular about what the students play on. They have all their 7th graders regardless of ability get brand new R13s. I object, but nobody listens. If they want to waste the money I figure why not. The junior high has 2 really nice selmers--they play to a low Eb. Problem is that they may be given to the high school students because they have nothing. So this parent is ready to spend several thousand dollars to get a used selmer similar to the ones the junior high has. They are very nice horns. Can anyone direct me to individuals that might help me find one?
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Author: Stephen Froehlich
Date: 2001-07-23 21:40
When I was shopping last fall, the old Eb Model 33 selmers were running a reasonable $1500 on eBay. (I bought a Kohlert from Dave. It has a bigger, bigger bore sound, which I have come to like, though it might not be ideal for TMEA tryouts, its great ensemble instrument.) You've checked the classifides here on Sneezy (and at http://www.new-music.org/bass-ads.html, of course. Be prepared to have it overhauled. I believe, from your IP address, that you're in Houston. There is a well recommended clarinet specialist in Houston (Katy?), but I can't remember his name at the moment. The Selmers do require a fairly delicate touch to get the feel right. Dave S. is another who can rework a Semler well.
Nothing on eBay right now fits the description.
As for the standardization - I've heard of this practice here in Texas. Leander is doing it here in Austin for the high school - which was shocking enough for me. I know clarinet intonation can be a, well, persistent problem in school ensembles, but this is a fairly drastic solution. However, getting a similar horn to what the school has would be good for intonation once the student reaches high school. What does the high school play on, and are they planning any acquisitions soon?
I believe this discussion deserves another thread, though.
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Author: willie
Date: 2001-07-23 21:42
The bass clarinets at our high school are junk too! Fortunately the Proffessor out at the collage lets my daughter use one of his basses as she plays with use in the community band. Just about all the used basses I've looked at for my daughter, both around the Houston area and eBay, etc., were all old school horns that have been well used and abused. Even with much needed repairs, the were pricey. The little Vito/Bundys can be a good horn if fixed up and taken care of right. My only big concern with these is they tend to all snap in half at the same point, the top of the lower tenon. I think, after observing several, the case may be the culpret. It is long and not well fitting. With the body inside as one long piece all you have to do is drop the case and the crack is started. School horns in cases tend to get tossed alot after football games when it is time to go home.The ones in cases that required pulling the upper and lower sections apart never cracked.
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Author: Natalie
Date: 2001-07-24 00:39
The high school kids have a variety of instruments. The 2 best are Yamahas that play to a low C, couldn't tell you the model number. I personally really don't like them. The tone is not near as nice as the Selmers. The others are Bundys and other older pieces of junk used for marching. The director does plan on buying some new Selmers within 2 years or so. That's good news.
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Author: Mike Harrelson
Date: 2001-07-24 03:19
You're right about many students having to play really bad bass clarinets. But in many cases in may not be bad bass clarinets, just poorly treated and maintained bass clarinets. Another option to consider might be the parent cutting a deal with the school to overhaul and adjust the "bad" clarinet. If a lot of kids are using the horn that may not be a good idea, but in a one user situation it could make sense. You would be surprised how well a student bass can play. Imagine playing your great top of the line selmer with leaky pads, poor adjusted keys and the stock mouthpiece that came with it (you might have trouble playing anything above a G!).
Good Luck with your search.
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Author: Stephen Froehlich
Date: 2001-07-24 14:15
When I was in High School, my band director's father convinced him to get a new Yamaha (low C) to replace the venerable Selmer that I had been using. I was thankful for the light keywork, but in hindsight, I think that the money would have been better spent on a major overhaul for the Bass with a truly good tech. However, the maintence contract situation for many schools precludes such a quality overhaul.
However, because the Bass section once your student gets to high school will continue to be on mixed instrumentation, I'd say that you have a fairly free hand to work with. I certainly get more comments (positive) on the tone I make in my community band with the Kohlert I bought from Dave S. than I believe I would have with a Selmer.
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Author: Robert
Date: 2001-08-10 14:23
My freshman year in high school I played on a brand spankin new still in wrapper LeBlanc 400 Bass Clarinet which was quite nice. The rest of High School I played on a Selmer Series 9 Rosewood Contra-Alto, but the bass players had some model 33s I think and some model 37s.
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