 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-11 02:57
From the many posts and answers I’ve read over time on our BB I’ve come to the conclusion that many folks don’t understand why some players get so obsessed over reeds. I’ve known clarinetists that are constantly making adjustments, taking weeks to break reeds in while going through hoops each and every day only to discard most of them by the time they’re “broken” in. I’ve known players that have 30 or more reeds on their stand during a rehearsal and are constantly changing reeds, even during rests at performances. I’ve played with a player that rotated over 24 reeds, keeping a dairy every day for each reed. I've heard of some that just go through boxes of reeds and just pick the best they can find at any given time. And I’ve known players that used the same reed for weeks on end. Iggy Gennusa was one of those players. He was the principal in the BSO during my first 7 years, and what a beautiful tone he got. He would play on the same reed for about 3-4 weeks. I could usually tell when he was becoming dissatisfied with his reed. It would begin to sound a little thinner and he would be in a bad mood all week while he would go through box after box of Vandorens at rehearsals. After a while he found “his” reed and everything was honky dory for 3-4 weeks again. He was so obsessed that on occasions he would refuse to take the reed off the mouthpiece or even swab because he told me he didn’t want to change the "molecules". He would say they were all lined up in the right place. I have no idea what he did in his studio as far as making adjustments or not. Iggy had some strange ideas but he sounded beautiful, you had to know him.
So why do many professionals get so antsy over reeds? It’s because once they’ve tasted the honey everything else is vinegar so they’re not satisfied with simply having a decent reeds, they are always looking for the “perfect” reed because we know what it sounds and feels like. I can’t speak for every professional but when I have a truly great reed I just love to hear myself play but when it’s just a bit off I’m unhappy with it even though no one else can tell the difference. Once they taste perfection it’s all over because they’re not satisfied with 90% or 95 % good, they’re looking for the all-elusive perfect reed, something that many of our readers don’t understand. The secret though is not to let it control you but for you to get control of. Something that even many professionals have never learned to do. I finally did many years ago and I’m a much happier person for it, but I still want to have the “perfect” reed, I just don’t beat my wife or kick the dog, cat in my case, when I can’t find it. I have what works for me on my website. It may or may not work for you.
ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: emily_heathcote
Date: 2009-08-11 09:07
There are two types of reed obsessers
The ones who play on unbalanced reeds going through every reed in the box trying to find a lucky one that is not too unbalanced.
And the reed-adjusters who are never satisfied with their adjustments or take too much too little at one side or the other... trying out all the different options.
I balance every reed I play on, as I feel not doing this is like going on a bike ride with a puncture. When the reed is on form it can last for 3-4 months (of professional playing) sometimes. But when that reed goes I fall back to earth with a great big bang.
I wish I was the former, and could produce a gorgeous sound by slamming any reed with no adjustment on the mouthpiece and just producing the most beautfiful sound.. as i have seen players do. But alas, I'm left sitting in my practice room reeds spread all over the piano... stressing about the next time I'll be on that amazing stretch of time with a good reed.....
....you've just got to enjoy it while it lasts!
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2009-08-11 11:14
Well I have a system that is a little bit what I was taught and a little bit from my own experience. I find reeds a waste of time so I concentrate on technique and will quickly balance a reed after about 5 days and then again a few days later if it still needs it. If it doesn't work after that, I'm wasting my time. And I use about 7 from a box of Gonzalez FOFs.
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Author: 2E
Date: 2009-08-11 13:55
I think non-clarinet playing musicians just dont understand clarinet players obsession with reeds. surely sax/oboe/bassoon players have some idea, although ive never known them to be AS obssessive as clarinet players.
Here are a few of my own basic principles that may help ...
1. Make sure the reeds you are playing are matched with the mouthpiece facing you're playing.
2. Proper break in procedure - don't expect every reed to play right out of the box for a big concert just because youve paid a rediculous amount of money for them.
3. Balance your reeds - its not hard and doesnt take long, Ridenours ATG system is probably the simplest/most effective for this.
4. Correct storage - don't let your reeds dry out and warp, keep them in a air tight container WITH some kind of humidity control otherwise they'll get mouldy. Rico probably offers the best solution for this.
5. Rotate your reeds - don't play on one reed until its dead and then start on the next, make sure you've got a selection of different reeds for different occasions. (Number them so you know which ones which)
I understand David Blumberg already posted this in the other thread about Rico Reserve Classic Reed, though I feel it applies here and may help people who havent already seen it. Mark Nuccio (Assoc. Principal Clarinet of NY phil) on rico reeds - http://www.tothestage.com/MediaDetail.PAGE?ActiveID=1172&MediaType=2&MediaId=7939
Hope this helps,
2E
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-08-11 14:25
2E wrote:
> surely sax/oboe/bassoon
> players have some idea, although ive never known them to be AS
> obssessive as clarinet players.
Oboists not reed obsessive? You obviously haven't played in the same orchestras that I have. ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
I've rarely met an oboist who didn't have his reed knife out at all times - even during performances.
...GBK
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Author: 2E
Date: 2009-08-11 14:35
You are too right Glenn! I simply refer to seeing double reed players carrying around anywhere between 6-10 reeds whilst clarinets carrying anywhere between 20-40 reeds. Understandably, VERY different orchestras :p
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Author: William
Date: 2009-08-11 14:52
It was the legendary emeritus Univeristy of Michigan Professor of Clarinet, William Stubbins, who (reportedly) use to scream at his students, "Play the reed, don't let the reed play you!!" And for years, I have tried to do this while at the same time using all manner of balancing, breaking in, rotating, saliva only, sanding, Reed Wizardry and other mystic pagan rituals, with only marginal and short-lived success. That is why I have admitted that the reed has played me to defeat, and have decided to look elsewhere--and that has led me to synthetic reeds, Forestones, to be specific. What I like best about these new composite reeds is that they are like puppies--always eager to please and ready to 'go'. Never have to balance, break in or even extensively warm up--just pick one out of the reed container and play effortlessly with a sound that frankly, no one notices as different from cane. Clean articulation and consistant performance from the beginning of practice/gig to end. And, so far (after using for three months), every reed I've tried still plays the same. They seem to last forever. The only thing I have noticed is that my multiple tonguing efforts above C6 are not as successful as with a good cane, but I'll keep working on that. Small price to pay for not having to fight the cane wars anymore. My apologies to Bill Stubbins, but I really am a much happier clarinetist these days and have not lost any credability with my fellow musicians nor my audiencies. However, Mr P, I do still "feel your pain". Have a great day, everyone.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2009-08-11 15:52
I'm with William on this.
I experienced -- and continue to experience -- a feeling of liberation when I switched to Legere and especially after I spent the time & effort to fine-tune the set up on each of my reed instruments to acheive optimal results with Legere. Now, my playing experience is very much like William's with the end result being able to focus more on the music and less on equipment. This is important to me as my music time is divided between composition and performance. By not having to deal with reed issues, I can use that time for more productive work.
Roger
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2009-08-11 18:30
I think one of the big problems is that some players are obsessive about playing reeds that all have the same characteristics: strength, articulation, "ring," and so forth, and that any variance is unacceptable.
Personally, if the reed is of a reasonable strength, balanced, responds, and sounds well (even if not exactly the way the last one sounded), that's good enough for me.
I'm remembered of something that Perrin (I think it was) wrote in a English style and usage guide about using hyphens. Something like, "If you worry enough about when and when not to use hyphens, you will surely go mad."
I think the same thing goes for clarinet reeds: If you worry about getting every reed you play to work exactly as you would like it to, or exactly the way your other reeds do, you will surely go mad.
B.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-08-11 19:08
I think it's logical to expect oboists (and to a lesser extent bassoonists) to be TWICE as obsessive about reeds as clarinetists are -- because with the oboe, the reed functions both as reed AND as mouthpiece -- so take your clarinetist's obsession with reeds, and add to that your mouthpiece obsession, and you have an oboist's reed obsession.
It's just simple math. ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-11 19:49
bmcgar said "Personally, if the reed is of a reasonable strength, balanced, responds, and sounds well (even if not exactly the way the last one sounded), that's good enough for me." He's making my point exactly by saying "That's good enough for me". That's one of the things that seperates some of us from others, it's rarely good enough for many players and they're the ones, I'm hoping that includes me, that simply have a higher standard and their playing often sounds it. But that doesn't mean one has to spend an inordinate about of time breaking them in, week instead of days, constantly adjusting, having 20-30 reeds on your stand, changing reeds constantly and going crazy. That doesn't mean that you can't sound very good if you're not obsessive either. If you really know what your doing I feel the highest standard can be achieved in a lot less time than many people think. That's the point I'm trying to make. ESP
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2009-08-11 23:44
Ed, not sure if I expressed myself well enough or that I understand your response to my "good enough for me," but "good enough for me" doesn't mean "not excellent" or "substandard," nor is it an excuse for laxity.
It means "within a a range that's acceptable for what I'm trying to do."
As with most things, if one wants perfection, one is going to have to expend 99+% of their effort (and angst) trying to reach it.
May I suggest to the obsessed out there that perfection in reeds isn't worth it, especially because reeds don't last forever?
B.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-12 01:26
bmcgar, I understand what you're saying and I agree with you but my point of this post was about those that are "obsessed" about their reeds. There are players out there that spend their whole waking hours, and maybe a few in their sleep, breaking in, adjusting or changing reeds and that's my whole point. Strive for perfection in everything you do but accept that it is not always possible to achieve, especially with reeds. ESP
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Author: whole note
Date: 2009-08-12 03:25
Over the past weeks I have been sampling the many reeds I have worked on, saved and/or used over the past two or three years. When I say kinds, I don't mean strengths--I often tried two or three strengths of each kind. (especially since some have quarter and + strengths) I had three kinds of Vandorens, four kinds of Legeres, two kinds of Marcas, two kinds of Ricos, and $120 worth of Forestones.
There were some real winners in the Vandoren and RIco piles but at the end of the day, the Legere Signature Series really rule on my Grabner K11*with Rovner MKIII ligature.
Now the trick is to force myself not to touch the cane reeds.
It is an obsession!
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Author: lrooff
Date: 2009-08-12 13:13
My recommendation to other clarinetists has been to find and keep a couple synthetic reeds that you like close at hand, even if you're a true believer in cane reeds. That way, no matter what happens, you'll always have a couple reeds you can use on a moment's notice, with no preparation, and you'll get a predictable sound from them. One of my friends arrived late and played an entire concert with a synthetic reed, thinking it was one of his cane reeds, and never realized which one he was using until afterward. His tone was no different than usual, which tends to suggest that the differences in how we perceive it may be mental rather than actual.
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Author: William
Date: 2009-08-12 15:06
Ed said, "Strive for perfection in everything you do but accept that it is not always possible to achieve,......"
But Vince Lombardi (1960's legendary Green Bay Packers coach) said it first, "Strive for perfection knowing all along that, while it is unattainable, you will acheive excellance". Of course, he was talking about obliterating the opposing football team (usually, then, the Chicago Bears), not conquering a clarinet reed..........lol.
Nonetheless, well said, Ed.
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2009-08-12 20:52
Does this help sum it up, Ed P?:
“If at first you don’t succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There’s no point in being a damn fool about it.” - W. C. Fields
<Insert one of those awful smileys here>
B.
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Author: FDF
Date: 2009-08-12 22:24
I wanted to make a comment, but there is no point to it after bmcgar's W.C. Fields quote. ;o0
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2009-08-13 00:27
I agree, to an extent, with what everyone has said.
Most professionals do tend to know what they want a reed to sound and FEEL like more so than the amateur or student. That being said, they tend to be able to pick out the best reeds from a box much easier and have a greater degree of embouchure and air stability that helps the reeds break in and still sound good.
A few things:
1) Synthetic reeds
I have always been able to find at least 2 reeds in a box that will outplay the best synthetic reeds I've tried (which has been many, legere, forestone. etc). Not only do synthetics not sound as good (as rich in overtones), they do things to your embouchure. Rather, you do things with your embouchure to try to get the "cane like" sound out of something that simply isn't going to get it.
My teacher, associate principal in montreal symphony, played a rehearsal on a forestone I think it was, and said it felt great. The next day he played it and it sounded HORRIBLE. I tried it and came to the same conclusion. For the next few days he said his embouchure wasn't feeling right, kind of fatigued and not quite sounding like himself. I'm convinced it was due to the plastic\synthetic reed.
2) My teachers in college, both undergrad and grad school, play vandoren v12's. They both keep\use around 4-5 in the box. 2 are performance ready, 2 are good enough and safe enough for practice and rehearsals if needed. One of them uses the perfect-a-reed, lightly balancing the reeds that need it. The other runs most through the reed wizard which balances the back half, and makes small adjustments here and there if warranted.
Neither one of then, nor I, freak out or obsess about having the perfect reed. We all carefully break them in, make minor adjustments, and work on playing the clarinet.
3) You should never be dependent on having a great reed to sound good. There should be 3 or 4 reeds in a box that will be in the ballpark. I have found that spending as much time as possible on a good warmup, good breathing, and technical skills have allowed me to 1) pick better reeds, 2) have reeds break in more quickly, and 3) become a better clarinet player instead of just a better reed adjuster.
If you give a "perfect", balanced, broken in reed to someone who hasn't practiced fundamentals (particularly breathing and embouchure) it really just doesn't matter.
A portion of the professional world is capable of finding that reed that will be 99.9% fantastic, and having that add the extra 5% nuance in their playing that is impossible for others to get.
-Nathan
McGill Graduate Student
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Author: haberc
Date: 2009-08-13 01:08
I'm a bit amazed that no one has mentioned Tom Ridenours ATG single reed finishing system. It is simply amazing and so so useful. It makes unplayable reeds really work. I was blown away as to how simple it is to use and how effective it is. I'd love to hear from others who have experience with this system.
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Author: Rob Vitale
Date: 2009-08-13 01:32
I use Tom Ridenours method and procedure to balance my reeds, but I don't use the sand block that he sells. Instead I use the reed rush. I like it better. He taught me personally how to balance my reeds. I went to undergrad with his daughter and is a great friend. I performed with her on her senior recital.
His method of testing and adjusting I have found so far to be unmarked by any other means.
On the contrary, and I may be the black sheep for saying this. But I love playing on crappy unbalanced reeds when I practice. It makes it that much easier and satisfying for me when I go back to my performance reeds.
If I pay for 10 reeds, I'm going to use all of them! Each one has their purpose.
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2009-08-13 02:12
I think others might be interested in something I tried about 30 years ago. I was making my own reeds at the time (with mixed success, something I don't bother with anymore), and I bought a PerfectaReed to make sure everything was exact. I also played on Olivieris, and I probably played them more often than my homemade reeds.
I had an Olivieri that I nicknamed Old Faithful. It was one of those rare reeds that always played perfectly, and it lasted for months and months before it finally slowly wore out. I got a "brilliant" idea--why not measure every dimension of Old Faithful with my PerfectaReed and adjust other less-playable reeds so that their dimensions matched that of Old Faithful?
It was a nice try, but it didn't work. No two cane reeds are exactly the same, and identical dimensions don't necessarily equal results.
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2009-08-13 02:20
Clarinetguy,
With the perfecta-reed it doesn't really matter what the numbers are, so long as the numbers are the same on both sides. I don't do all the positions and numbers, and even then I play test in between and stop if it's playing really well.
-Nathan
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-08-13 02:51
Ed P wrote:
<<So why do many professionals get so antsy over reeds? It’s because once they’ve tasted the honey everything else is vinegar so they’re not satisfied with simply having a decent reeds, they are always looking for the “perfect” reed because we know what it sounds and feels like.>>
Very true. I'm not speaking as a professional, of course, but I do know what Ed is talking about.
When I was in high school I once took a lesson with a major symphony principal player who was nice enough to let me play on one of his performance-grade reeds for the lesson. I can honestly say that before that experience, I had no earthly idea how good a reed could be. The result was an instant dramatic improvement in sound, control, and overall ease of playing. This was a reed that, remarkably, did what I wanted instead of fighting me. Needless to say, I've come to expect a lot from my reeds ever since then.
What I learned from this experience, aside from what to expect from a good reed, was that it can be hard for a student to tell the difference between difficulties that arise because of lack of skill and difficulties imposed by equipment. Sometimes you can spend hours trying to perfect through practice what might be made immediately simpler by tweaking your equipment (or, in a lot of cases, the fingerings you use). In my case (where the lesson in question was over the opening of the Copland Concerto), using a pro-performance quality reed made a lot of things I was having some difficulty with tremendously easier.
I think part of learning the instrument is figuring out how to use your time to get the best results, and what I learned from this experience is that to get the best results, you have to spend time on things other than just repetitive practice. Time spent working on or selecting reeds is, generally speaking, time well spent. Likewise, I find that studying the music away from the instrument is also time well spent. Both of these activities may actually save you practice time because they can eliminate problems you would otherwise have to iron out through practice. A good, responsive reed or a judiciously chosen alternate fingering can save you having to practice a difficult pp attack or wide-leaping slur an inordinate number of times, for example.
IMHO, clarinetists who really know their stuff know what to expect from themselves vs. their equipment, and they get the most mileage from their time by concentrating on what they know will get the results they want. I think that's really at the heart of what this thread is about.
Post Edited (2009-08-13 03:00)
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2009-08-13 14:01
NBeaty said:
I don't do all the positions and numbers, and even then I play test in between and stop if it's playing really well.
I agree with you. It is easy to become obsessed with all of the numbers and measurements, but trying to "fix" everything won't necessarily give you a better reed. Some great reeds that I've had are not completely balanced.
Post Edited (2009-08-13 14:06)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-14 00:23
Reed cane is sort of like fine wines grapes. To much rain, not enough rain, to much sun, not enough sun etc. That's why a fine wine can sell for $200 a bottle one year and the same brand and manufacture sells for $20 a bottle the next. Reed cane is the secret whether you make your own or buy commercial reeds. As the saying goes, "it's the cane stupid". No reed machine or method will make a bad piece of cane play at a high level, I don't care what they tell you it just won't. Yes, you can make it play at the $20 dollar level but never at the $200 level. You can't polish a turd. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: morbius
Date: 2012-10-19 02:12
Well maybe. I know that the sound you hear is not necessarily the sound you produce, both from myself and my students. (Sound is also transmitted up the jaw bone). I am driven more by practicability; some reeds will allow you to play certain passages (particularly articulated ones), some will not. You need to be able to separate out what are your limitations from what are the reeds limitations... and that is not so easy in either direction.
John Dorch
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Author: Chetclarinet
Date: 2012-10-19 13:44
I "solve" the reed problem by purchasing numerous boxes of reeds and simply searching for and occasionally finding an excellent reed! Having enough money to do this is a blessing. When I was at Eastman, all of the students made their own reeds from blanks. These days, I just try enough of them to find the good ones and play golf! I play bass clarinet professionally more than clarinet, and thankfully, bass reeds last longer than clarinet reeds. I can often play forty or so Nutcracker performances on less than four reeds. I have played the bass clarinet professionally for 45 years and can honestly say that I never have adjusted a reed for it! I guess I have missed all the fun!
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Author: William
Date: 2012-10-19 15:53
Having read some of my earlier postings on this thread, I though an "update" might be in order. I still have not purchased a cane reed since I discovered Forestone reeds. And many of those origina Bb clarinetl reeds are still playing, although most have been adjusted via clipping and shaving. Since then, I have also been playing Forestone sax reeds and some complimentary prototype bass clarinet reeds that were sent to me for trial. More than a few times, I have been complimented on "how nice" my clarinets sound by collegues, conductors and audience members and see no reason to return to the days of cane. Currently, I am playing in a semi-professional orchestra (eveyone gets paid per service and is auditioned), a new community orchestra (you pay to play and there is no audition, although I was invited), three local wind ensembles and a "swing" big band which plays every Monday afternoon for local senior centers (we have a lot in Madison). Also, when on vacation, I try to seek out local bands to "sit in" with just to avoid vacation chops and have fun and play clarinet in new musical settings (sometimes, quite "interesting").
My point is, I do a lot of playing using synthetic reeds and no one has ever turned to me and said, "Yuk"!!! I am playing mostly vintage Forestone clarinet and sax reeds (the new F. clar. reeds are not as good), a combination of Legere and Forestone reeds on my bass clarinet and ordering some Harry Hartmann Fibrecane reeds which seem quite promising. My equipement: Chicago Kaspar #14 sop. mpc, Selmer HS**eb mpc., Grabner CX_BS bass mpc., Selmer "soloist" metal "Jazz" ** alto mpc., Guardala "Studio" metal tenor mpc., and a Joe Anello sop mpc.
So there's my update: still play'n those older Forestones, investigating some new synthetics and thoroughly enjoying my "Cane Mutiny".
Just a comment regarding the use of synthetic reeds destroying one's embouchure, there is a difference that you have to get used to. But once you learn to adapt and control, there is really only positive differences to experiance, there most beneficial being consistancy of tone and response from one day to the next. You can't try them for one rehearsal or moment and decide intelligently, it does take some time. All I can say is from experiance, I made the permanent switch and am not looking back. I am (still) playing the music and not worrying about playing the reed. Life is good..........
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Author: Sean.Perrin
Date: 2012-11-01 01:15
"they're the ones, I'm hoping that includes me, that simply have a higher standard and their playing often sounds it. "
I disagree. I think people who fiddle with their reeds too much are obsessed, and many are covering up other aspects of their playing which could be fixed with correcting issues with their technique. Instead of always fussing about making the reeds "perfect" and blaming them for issues, try and learn to get around on a reed that's not 100%. Pianists have long been used to this, and I think it's better to just deal with it than to fuss and complain about the instrument and accessories. Obviously, this is meant to exist within the confines of reason. I'm not implying that one should accept a bad reed, but the amount of time and money I've seen people spend to fuss with their reeds is absurd.
I rarely fiddle with reeds beyond minor adjustments. I find that there are a few good ones in each box mixed with a few bad ones. Trying to bring the worst ones to life is like beating a dead horse.
Also, I use legere about 50 percent of the time, even in performance. I have to buy around 10 to find 3 or 4 I really love, but I actually think that the legere sound better on many occasions and really appreciate the consistency that they provide. I love teaching with them as well because they don't dry out and I don't risk breaking or wearing out my good cane reeds.
Founder and host of the Clarineat Podcast: http://www.clarineat.com
Post Edited (2012-11-01 01:22)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-11-01 07:49
Mitchell Lurie played reeds for 6 months. I have no idea how he did it.
One time at Peabody, I couldn't find a reed. Gennusa couldn't either. He sent me to a music store behind Peabody and I got 4 boxes. During the lesson we couldn't find anything to work. Iggie was searching for a reed as well.
Well after not finding a single reed to play he was so upset he had to go home. He was actually sick. Well the following day I went to a music store near DC and bought a few boxes. These played very well.
From that experience I realized if you find a few good boxes of reeds buy a lot of boxes. Based on the shipments the cane will vary a lot.
I leave a great reed on a MP also. My feeling is the reed has formed to the MP.
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Author: Sean.Perrin
Date: 2012-11-01 12:54
Surely you don't leave it on while you're not playing? If you leave the reed on the mouthpiece the tip will bend and it will go mouldy.
Reeds should be stored on a perfectly flat surface, it a case with some level of humidity control.
Founder and host of the Clarineat Podcast: http://www.clarineat.com
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2012-11-01 14:58
Sean.Perrin wrote:
> Surely you don't leave it on while you're not playing? If you
> leave the reed on the mouthpiece the tip will bend and it will
> go mouldy.
>
Well, as I read Bob's last sentence, I think he *did* mean exactly that, but he can answer for himself. For myself, I always have left the reed on the mouthpiece (with the ligature loosened) when I pack the instrument away. I've never had a tip bend (I'm not even sure what that looks like) and the only time I ever experienced mold was when I tried to store the mouthpiece and reed in a ziplock bag to keep the reed from drying out. This was before things like Reed Vitalizer that control the humidity level, and when I wrapped the mouthpiece and reed in plastic it was just too wet and grew mold.
> Reeds should be stored on a perfectly flat surface, it a case
> with some level of humidity control.
>
Reeds need to be stored in some way that provides for equal evaporation from both the front and the back surfaces. That can be a flat surface if humidity control is used (so the exposed surface never dries completely). It can also be in a case that holds reeds on their edges so both front and back are exposed to air (my own preference). And leaving the reed on the mouthpiece provides ventilation to the back of the vamp area as well as the front, achieving the same effect. The only time in my playing life that I've ever experienced warped reeds was when I used a flat glass type of holder without humidity control.
Karl
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-11-01 19:06
Sean, YES! I leave the reed on and the ligature is slightly loosened, just as Karl described. Well it surely works for me. I never tighten the ligatures real tight anyway. I slide it on and make sure the reed doesn't move. I hardly ever move the screws as long as the reeds are snug.
One time the Baltimore Symphony, the same symphony Eddie Palanker plays in, was going to Germany, perhaps in the late '70's. Steve Barta the first clarinetist sent 40 boxes of Morre' reeds to a friend in Germany about 3 months before the tour. Not a bad idea and I learned something from that and reeds haven't been an issue for me. However I only send a few boxes! 40 was surely crazy.
Eddie, can you elaborate on this tour if you remember it? Did you experience any problems with assorted tours and climatic weather conditions during your years of performing? Did Steve Barta talk to you way back then? Does he still do this practice?
When I was in Maryland it was raining and I had an audition in NYC for Spoleto (spelling?) the summer orchestra that takes young artists and performs in the US, then Italy. At that time it was a 12 week tour. 6 weeks in the US and 6 in Italy. Well it was snowing in NYC during the audition. A big humidity change. Rain to snow is a killer.
Long story short, this great reed I kept on was seasoned for Maryland weather and when I arrived in NYC the reed died. I had no idea where to find a music store in New York in just 6 hours. Well I lost the audition. All of the reeds I had wouldn't perform in the cold. I didn't come close to getting in the orchestra.
If you live in an area where the climate is good well I keep the reed on the mouthpiece until it dies.
Anyway, I keep the reed on the mouthpiece and actually dip the reed and the mouthpiece with the ligature on, in water before warming up. Am I nuts? Probably! Oh, if needed I will move the reed slightly to the right or the left if I'm not getting that WOW factor when playing.
After working at Rico for all of those years I found this system to work very well. I don't cure the reeds for a week as some do. If the reed simply doesn't play at all, even after taking a knife to it, I trash it. With a good new reed I will play it for about 20 minutes the first day, fine tune it the second day and by the third day I can get it to play for about a month putting in about 3 to 4 hours of playing per day. The only thing I may do to the reed is clip the tip, because the reed can get a tad soft.
It is a bit different now. Rico and even Vandoren have to cut the cane earlier in life because of the cane shortage. This makes it much harder to find a reed to last. It's already weak in strength so I surely don't want to soak it or break it in. The cane is too young and if the reed doesn't play I don't feel breaking in a reed is actually a good thing. Too much water can kill it. The best cane is when these weeds are around 4 years old. (Cane is classified in the weed family) Well I believe these 2 companies cut down the poles at the 2 year mark. The fibers aren't strong enough to be soaked everyday.
At one time Rico was so short on cane they bought 400,000 blanks from Prestini! Thats how short the cane supply is.
I'm sure a lot of players will disagree, however I'm just going by the post that Eddie started.
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-11-02 02:32
I suppose I'm a little "reed crazy"... Right now, since our weather is changing here in Illinois, I've been keeping my reeds strapped to a small piece of plexy glass and sealed inside a ziplock bag with 2 humidifiers. Even this doesn't save them from weather changes. Sigh.
I can understand your idea Bob, but as you said... for those of us who are at the mercy of abrupt weather changes, this technique isn't necessarily feasible. Seems that I have to keep a supply of reeds that extend from soft to hard(er), depending on the day and what the weather is doing.
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2022-01-18 06:16
so done with cane! been using synthetics for years and they are getting better . i use bari-forestone -bravo and legere . no favs just which works best on what horn and mpc etc. yes its costly but so liberating to know you always have the right reed for a preformance. so worth it!
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2022-01-18 07:47
Hi Super20dan,
Which synthetic do you find works best with a Hite mp?
Thanks,
Jen
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2022-01-18 07:53
As for weather, it is a humidity problem. Cold weather equals very dry humidity, and if you soak reeds the same as in humid weather, they won't play well - BUT, it isn't the reeds fault!
Rock the reed back and forth by the sides of the cut on a flat (glass) surface. If it rocks back and forth, it isn’t wet enough. The table has swollen. I soak in water after they are broken in – broken in means the reed pores are sufficiently clogged to prevent much change while playing.
I mark reeds that need more soaking with a groove at the heel. One groove needs at least a 2 hour soak and two grooves need a 4+ hour soak. The bark is more waterproof and when soaking a very dry reed, the bark swells into the table area.
If 4+ hours aren’t enough, the table needs to be re-flattened because it was cut that way.
This works for me and surly it won’t work for everyone. But try it, and if it works, you will be discarding not so many of your good reeds.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2022-01-18 18:03
unquestionably the hites like legere brand the best. they will play ok with the others but tone is best on legere
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-01-18 18:58
In the spirit of the opening post, I’d concur with SuperDan. The Legere European cut for Bb clarinet is pretty amazing. I’ve been using Legere for seven years and don’t even THINK about humidity any more (and that was SUCH a big deal).
To be sure, Legere’s have there issues as well. They are VERY thin (up and down), and slippery. This could preclude use of certain ligatures (the pre formed dip in the Vandoren M/O is just too small to work at all). And there is only a few hairs worth of adjustment room up and down on the mouthpiece (to make stronger or weaker) before you lose most of that particular strength reed’s ability to function properly (separate from strength).
HOWEVER
Going from hour to hour, day to day knowing pretty much exactly how you are going to sound is priceless. And speaking of price, I rotate through as little as four reeds (switching day to day) over the course of a year without needing to buy more reeds. That’s a LOT less than a $30 box of ten about every three weeks. Correct my math if I’m wrong!
……………Paul Aviles
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2022-01-18 20:42
(satire)
First off, apologies. My internet connection's bad today. That said, I don't know what the fuss is about. My first teacher taught me how to make every reed in a box perfect and last 6 months, even for the fussiest of player. I'm on my 3rd box of reeds since picking up the clarinet 40 years ago.
Anyway le$ me sh#are w^8h you his fo##proo@ approa@! befo** I loos# my internet con!!cti$#:
QOpzGO3LbYAeP 8baOis2BYP5pd xwJYcCV0qpV7sd4RSBAnmX s3rZRWVd5Y9mwz7i8zHVi2tSRavXBOo Wegf4pz7SR2 mQUQbrF/oawcUygEweA8RS ivE5pPKGz+G MKny0pQG3Lh1XrvtJCtN I1YUaQLWVy2vWXw8WjrMWoBA62zQkVQ3P3Zuc9Km1ASHwOAjlkFEN+dUbtf dwihwVgMu6lvOrebq0btBCDTnAeD6REKdAHqgH1Jl6yVTHxTxzxBT3N3ib2ZxkZ7SO3OWum57hI+0U nJY+MyvOF mzy3E+SUiv0YXaE2bTFSi 3dWDC4s9ywajuhqlBANIU XDvazMx/ucbVKmH0X fkUWRTXV9DaweaCRgdYh1RgYetJHnJwP/Gytu3O5VpCvBM2PdpO9znzHK5hJ8FQTSTa5t1I+F9ShWEoC qIbJoAK1mEqqhe69 bMEEVbrT763KjKe IXawubhb0jyVFXzRuf2K8DWJkZwCD9h+GIN4Mp1Awg9H+fGjwBYv3
You're welcome.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ok.. that was meant as a funny. This isn't. The secret to reeds, I think, is balance, and that's a deliberate double entendre. In my opinion, without question there are techniques out there, like the ATG method that will allow more of your reeds to be playable.
But there's a second kind of balance that requires the removal of no cane, and rather it resides in your head. And that balance accepts that reeds are imperfect, highly dynamic (usually downhill) and that a good player must know "when to hold them and when to fold them," pardon the card playing analogy.
Constant adjustment can take from your most precious asset: time. Time to let technique overcome some of a reed's shortcomings. Conversely, acceptance of reed mediocrity when a little sanding can makes worlds of difference is no good either. And sure, all brands and boxes within brands aren't equal.
As a young player I was a reed perfectionist in part because I had lack of mental concept of what level of acceptability was ok in reeds, seeking to compensate for my playing shortcomings. Here's where private lessons, where my teacher player my setup with such grace forced me to accept that the thing needing most rebalancing at the time was me.
Post Edited (2022-01-18 20:44)
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2022-01-18 23:21
OK, I confess, I was/am-still fussy about reeds, but now for different reasons.
I've always broken reeds in, striven to balance them, smoothed the vamp to ensure resistance to changes in humidity (as recommended by Ben Armato), kept them in sealed containers on flat surfaces, etc.
However, I used to select reeds that (I thought) gave the darkest/roundest sound, typically harder reeds. These were often uncomfortable, less flexible and made (my already slow) articulation slower.
When I consulted with Greg Smith (ultimately selected one of his Chedeville 1* mouthpieces), he commented that we typically play reeds that are too hard and do not allow the mouthpiece to contribute appropriately to tone, response, flexibility, etc.
I also recall a post on this board about Robert Marcellus (asking a student?) to select the buzziest reed for an upcoming performance because he knew it would respond better but still sound just fine out in the hall. (I don't seem to be able to locate this post any more...?)
During pandemic I've played less, but still got older, so I've experimented with various factors to allow me to get the results I want with less effort. Recently, I've tried the Selmer Echo Mouthpiece which is both more resistant and closer in facing than the mouthpieces I've played in more recent years (M30, B40 [Lyre], Backun Arabesque, BD5, BD4). I've also been recording and analyzing the performance of various combinations of mouthpiece, reed and ligature.
Based on these experiments, I've learned that:
1) By keeping the airstream focused and intense, it is possible to obtain a good tone even when using a softer reed. Moreover, with softer reeds I have more control over nuances in tone/response/dynamics/range.
2) When using a softer reed, the mouthpiece contributes more to the overall resulting tone/response/dynamics/range just as Greg Smith said. That being said, it is important to have good compatibility between your mouthpiece and the brand/cut of reed you are using.
3) Not all mouthpieces are sufficiently reed-friendly to achieve the results (1) and (2). I have found that (for me) the Selmer Echo is much more reed friendly than most mouthpieces I have favored in the past, providing great tone/response/dynamics/range with less effort using softer reeds. It may also be that slightly more resistance in the mouthpiece may also help using softer reeds (e.g., my BD4 is almost as good, but in general favors a bit stronger reed than the Echo).
4) Using quality recordings is essential to determining the desired reed/mouthpiece/ligature combination as what we hear when playing is probably not what our audience hears.
I still break-in/balance/adjust reeds, but after listening to the recorded results, I find that I'm happy with the performance of a larger number of (softer) reeds (which need less adjustment) than I used to be.
Bob Barnhart
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