 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: KenAbbott
Date: 2001-07-22 21:45
I'm toying with the idea of getting a full boehm clarinet. How much for a Selmer or a Buffet? From where?
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Author: KevinS
Date: 2001-07-22 21:59
Ken,
If you can afford one, you can have an authorized Buffet dealer order one for you. Retail is around $5,800.00! If you look on Ebay right now, there's a full boehm buffet Bb, and a full boehm Selmer A for sale. The Bb is in Germany, and the A is in Australia. I'm sure either one will be more reasonable than ordering new. Even if extensive repairs were necessary, you might be looking at half the retail price MAX. Another full boehm Selmer A went for around $700.00. I bought my full boehm Buffet for $900.00 on Ebay. I really like it!
Good Luck!,
Kevin
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-07-23 00:16
According to the Leblanc price list a full Boehm LL model costs $1400 more than a plain Boehm LL. This puts it at $3900 list. Or $2535 with a 35% discount (my price list is a few years old). LLs are nice horns too. Mine has all of the full Boehm keywork except the low Eb, and I'd like to have that too. But if you can find a pro level full Boehm in good shape for $1000 or less, that would be the way to go. Also new full Boehms are usually special order items and that means a wait of three months or more.
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Author: MarkP
Date: 2001-07-23 02:58
I just bought a pair of Buffet full Boehm's (A & B flat) for 585 on eBay, they are currently in the shop for overhauls. They date from 1902 and have the one piece body construction.
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Author: Rob
Date: 2001-07-23 22:40
Please make sure that if you buy one you find a reputable technician who is willing to work on it. I have had tech people refuse to work on mine in the past. I had an overhaul done by someone on my Buffet FB a few years ago that was less than a sterling job. I could tell that the tech couldn't figure out how to make the fine adjustments to the mechanisms and so I had to do it myself. I won't mention any names because I don't like trashing people in a public forum. I can tell you though that last year John Butler restored an old Selmer FB for me and his work was nothing short of miraculous and very reasonable in price. Check also on prices in advance for technical work because some techs have charged me a little more to work on them. I have 3 (2 Selmers and a Buffet) and I wouldn't part with them for anything.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-07-23 23:36
Good advice, Rob. There is not question that many repair folks get irritated just at the mere mention. There are a number of fingerings which are affected by Full Boehm.
Interesting subject ....
Does anyone know of an Artists who play FB at all times? Or a near-FB (say, save the low Eb) ???
[[ I have seen several artists who played a FB for a particular piece, etc --- can't recall seeing any who did it on a full-time basis ]]
Best,
mw
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2001-07-24 03:23
My old band director for high school played a Half-FB almost all the time. (That is, the alt-G#/D# and a C#/G# banana - Is that right? I'm no expert - Nothing else.) He was also very talented, "Flight of the Bumblebee" caliber. I remember looking at his FB clarinet and his Low-C bass with pure envy.
But still, it does seem impractical to always use a full Boehm; they're hard to replace, from what I understand. I've seen several brass/woodwind players play beat-up student models for on-the-road concerts. The occasional flutist that plays a closed-hole C-Foot instead of an open hole B-Foot, the French Hornist whose horn has three valves instead of four, a tubist that has three piston valves instead of five rotors... all three of the above professional examples of the horns are more commonly found than a full-Boehm clarinet. Let's take a look further...
Instrument ... On the road concert ... Concert hall
Flute ... Closed-hole C-Foot ... "The works"
Horn ... Three-valve ... Four/five-valve
Tuba ... Pistons ... Rotors
Clarinet ... Not-Full Boehm ... ???
Conclusion: You don't need "the works" to sound good, just a playable instrument. And seeing how Good Full-Boehm Bb clarinets are harder to find than, say, a pro-flute or a pro-horn, most stick with what they got.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-07-24 20:15
mw -
Many players in Italy play full Boehm instruments. Up to about 50 years ago, few players owned an A clarinet, but transposed everything on the Bb with the low Eb key.
Gino Cioffi, who was principal in Boston during the 1950s and 60s, used everything-but-low-Eb instruments (handmade Selmers). He was one of the really fine orchestral players. Rosario Mazzeo, the bass clarinetist in Boston, used a super-full Boehm of his own design, with a bunch of additional keys and levers. Sherman Friedland played the same instruments for many years. I'm not sure what he plays now, but he has several postings on Cioffi and Mazzeo in "Sherman's Corner" here on Sneezy.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-07-25 03:22
Ken, I have had the good fortune to have spent time on several occasions (mostly just listening) with Mr. Ben Armato (wow, what a GREAT Pedagogue is he!) Ben has talked from time to time in a rather animated fashion about his Italian standmate @ the Met. (wasn't he the one who could play the reed upside down?)
You have a great memory & understanding of all things clarinet. RIGHT, I think it was Tony Pay (for one) who commented on the Klarinet List about the Italian clarinetists who did use full boehm to their advantage in transposing, etc. Young Italian Clarinetists were _routinely_ trained in transposition at a very young age. YES, having 2 clarinets was a luxury that most young Italian players could ill afford.
Best,
mw
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-07-25 03:51
I think you're referring to Ben's standmate named Luigi Cancellieri (1893-1959). Cancellieri's teacher was Aurelio Magnani (1856-1921), and Magnani's teacher was Ernesto Cavallini (1807-1874). And Cavallini premiered Verdi's La Forza del Destino. Italian tradition holds that the solo was written especially for Cavallini; scholars assert otherwise since there is no written evidence or facts supporting this.
Ben is a dear friend of mine and recommened and provided the La Forza del Destino excerpt for the Sneezy competition.
So now you know "the rest of the story".
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-07-25 04:36
So, Ben had 2 famous Italian partners? Since Ben was at the Met 38 years, I assumed he had to be playing around 1950 when Cioffi was there. It probably was Luigi that he spoke of since that person, according to Ben, was having difficulty with English. Cioffi was principal in Boston for quite a few years and "retired" to the Met & the Goldman Band.
IMMSMR, Ben tells a very funny story about how he helped the Italian player to a quick fix & maintenance while they had an extremely long rest in one of the Opera's. When it came time for the Italian clarinet player to resume playing, all the "maintenance" came apart in his hands and he couldn't get a note out! Ben said that the Italian player was talking to himself for a week following this "little bump in the road".
I think all too often we think single-mindedly of the French. Certainly, the Italians have contributed much, too. [ Alessandro Carbonare ain''t no slouch either! ]]
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Author: Jonathan (Aus)
Date: 2001-07-25 12:40
I've got a matching set of Leblanc L7's (around 20 years old) that I would hope to get around AUD $3,800 or so for when I sell them(about $1,900 US dollars).
Jonathan
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