 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Leonard Alterman
Date: 2021-12-22 02:48
My clarinet teacher always insisted that I practice etudes very slowly. At what point did any of you speed uo?
Post Edited (2021-12-22 02:49)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2021-12-22 04:24
To put your question into some context, I'm curious if you're still a student, are a young adult player, or an older, now experienced player with enough perspective to judge your early studies meaningfully.
Given whatever your experience level is, I'm curious to know if you have found that a helpful approach over the years that you've played clarinet. And at what point you sped up your practicing. I'm also curious whether, for the sake of brevity, you've made it sound as if your teacher wanted *every* étude practiced slowly or just certain ones
The main thing is, slow practice can accomplish certain important things. But it can't develop parts of your technique that are *specific* to fast playing. The fingers work differently. The tongue works differently. The eyes move a little differently.
I'm interested, too, to know what it means that you refer to "My clarinet teacher" as if you had only one during the time you studied. Have you had others since? If so, what was your experience with those others?
To answer your question directly, there was a time, of course, when I *couldn't* play very fast - at least not by more advanced standards. Even once I started studying with skilled, experienced teachers, the study material - études, solo pieces - were pretty much appropriately demanding, which means - not very. Once I had gotten to the level of Klosé and Rose it seemed pretty much necessary to begin each one well under tempo until I knew what was was in them.
But the only étude I ever had teachers (each of the 3 or 4 I studied it with) insist had to be done v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y *specifically to practice legato* during lessons was the 1st of the Rose 40 studies. In fact, I was never allowed to play it for any teacher at the tempo Rose indicates. That was, I think, a Bonade-based tradition (maybe he carried it to Curtis from one of his teachers), and all of those teachers were either Bonade's students or his students' students. After that, it was, as I remember, left to me to decide how slow I needed to be on a first reading at home (I never sightread for any of my teachers - they wanted to hear a practiced result). I was never asked to play a piece slowly at a lesson that was meant to be fast.
I was expected to play accurately - which meant I had to know what was on the page, something many students seem to have trouble with - the ones who start a scale or arpeggio on the first note and race up or down to the last one and miss half or more of the notes in between. Slow playing within reason is one way to see what the composer has written. But that was *my* job, however I worked it out.
Karl
Post Edited (2021-12-22 07:12)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-12-22 17:43
Someone posted recently that they were shocked to realize the we LEARN better when things are done correctly at a slow pace.
Is that really a new concept for y'all?
But to answer the question: one can and should bump up speed every now and then (doesn't have to be that one click on the metronome at a time either.......just a big ol' leap of tempo).
As a practice routine (and I mean a standard PRACTICE routine) I always reserve the ability to go over something really really slowly to reinforce accuracy. And it is NEVER too late to practice something slowly. For example if there is a specific technical passage in a concert that is giving you some trouble, you can run through that spot really really slowly just before you go on.
Just keep in mind, if practicing "at tempo" (whatever that is) is sloppy, then practicing slowly is just common sense.
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: Leonard Alterman
Date: 2021-12-22 19:32
kdk I am an adult player and no longer taking lessons. I would characterize myself as intermediate and am able to play fast music in a community band.Given that etudes generally have tempo markings it just seems that at some point the goal would be to observe them
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2021-12-22 20:31
Paul Aviles wrote:
> Someone posted recently that they were shocked to realize the
> we LEARN better when things are done correctly at a slow pace.
>
> Is that really a new concept for y'all?
>
Well, no, but it depends on *what* we-all are trying to learn whether or not we benefit from slow practice. If we-all are playing everything correctly, accurately, then there may not be much to be gained by staying at the slow tempo. (See my next response to Leonard).
Karl
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2021-12-22 20:46
Leonard Alterman wrote:
> kdk I am an adult player and no longer taking lessons. I
> would characterize myself as intermediate and am able to play
> fast music in a community band.Given that etudes generally have
> tempo markings it just seems that at some point the goal would
> be to observe them
Paul Aviles wrote:
> But to answer the question: one can and should bump up speed
> every now and then (doesn't have to be that one click on the
> metronome at a time either.......just a big ol' leap of tempo).
>
> As a practice routine (and I mean a standard PRACTICE routine)
> I always reserve the ability to go over something really really
> slowly to reinforce accuracy.
I agree with what Paul writes here - practicing slowly is a tool which you can always use anytime it seems needed to solve a particular problem or serve a specific purpose. But, slow practice doesn't solve all or even nearly all playing problems. Sometimes the problem is brought on by the speed itself, and then different analytical and remedial tools need to used.
I'm curious more from a pedagogical standpoint than anything else what the extent was of this teacher's insistence on slow practice. Was it a way to start working on new music? Were you never to work up to any approximation of the indicated tempo? How many years did this go on?
I agree with you completely that at some point you'd want to observe the composer's tempo markings. If the piece is just too fast for an individual student to play, it isn't appropriate material for that student.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-12-22 21:16
Once on my computer I’ll post the fast practice video that can help with “speed” and coordination issues.
I’ve never been a slave to details so I’ve never let written tempo markings be anything but a suggestion. Interestingly, I just heard JoAnn Falletta co-host a Sirius XM show that went through all the Beethoven symphonies. That brought up the invention of the metronome and how Beethoven’s introduction to it influenced the style of his Eighth Symphony. Ms. Falletta also spoke of some of the “unplayable” tempo markings in his symphonies. She said that she will internalize them to allow that to influence her approach but ultimately NOT the final tempo.
In a nutshell, don’t be afraid to just use your best musical judgement when it comes to the pace of a given piece of music…… despite the composer’s (or usu. editor’s) best intentions.
………………Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2021-12-22 23:15)
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2021-12-22 22:32
Is it this one that you wanted Paul? I keep it handy now too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89ZtpOWEt4s
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-12-22 23:13
Yup, that's it!
THANKS!!!
So you practice "fast" muscle action/coordination that cannot be replicated slowly but you do it with accuracy.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2021-12-23 10:28
Most teachers don't explain this very well. You play slow because that's how your brain and body learn, it's not about speed. You can always practice faster, but sometimes that's not as effective.
Tony Pay, a famous clarinetist, said on the board here that you play slowly so that you notice your mistakes. That was the best explanation I've heard.
What you want to do is practice so that you can play smoothly and accurately at any tempo. You do NOT play slowly so that you can "speed up gradually". You can learn fast passages by starting slow and speeding up, but that's not the point. You will find that if you can play slowly smoothly, accurately, and musically, speeding up easy. Playing slowly is much harder. Just don't start so slow that it's impossible. If you start playing too fast you make too many mistakes and get sloppy. I mean "start" a piece, not playing in general. You don't have to play for so many years before trying fast passages, but try to get them accurate.
IMO we should stop saying "start slowly" because it tells you what to do, but not why. It points to the wrong thing. Instead we should say, "pay closer attention", and then give practice strategies, including slow practice.
- Matthew Simington
Post Edited (2021-12-23 10:38)
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2021-12-23 13:03
I noticed another wierd thing about this.
I find it much easier to play faster if I have memorised the music from the stave, without involving the instrument at all. I don't mean memorised by rote learning, but really getting right inside the music so I am at home in it.
The thing that really brought this home to me was when I studied for Grade 5 music theory over the last 3 years. I had to do truckloads of transposition on paper from treble to bass clef, and I found that quite hard. However, when I came back to try to try the piano afterwards, I found that I could sightread the left hand much more effectively.
It was really odd, because I used to look at the bass clef and think "okay that's an E, now where is E on the keyboard again?" and then press it. But since doing all that work on paper, I just look at the note on the bass clef and my finger knows where to go.
I find that really really weird, but it brings home to me that idea that "practising slowly" can also mean "practicing on paper", or practising in my mind, without an instrument being there at all.
(I'm rubbish on the piano btw, so I'm not talking about blazing fast, amazing playing here, but just much better than I could do before.)
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