 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2021-12-03 11:53
Hi,
I wondered if I could ask a question on the behalf of the young players coming through?
I was thinking yesterday that a lot of young players who love clarinet playing must feel under a lot of pressure to become professionals in order to follow their passion for music.
However, I have a sense from reading this forum that a lot of us are able to afford a good instrument and to spend time on our music, because we had a non-musical career that paid the bills, while we enjoyed music as a hobby.
I wondered if it would be okay to ask what careers everybody has or had, that enabled them to pay the bills and still have time to enjoy their love of clarinet playing and buy and maintain a good instrument?
This is just to give an idea of a roadmap to the younger players coming through, so they know what their options are if they want to follow a similar route to the people that they see on the BBoard.
Thanks!
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2021-12-03 11:59
Here is what I did:
I trained as a plant scientist and worked in academic research for a while, but that was a very demanding, poorly-paid career. I quickly moved out into biological computing, which had a better salary and didn't need me to move city or country every three years.
I then got married to a computer scientist, and became a stay-at-home Mum.
The reason why I can afford a nice clarinet is because my husband works in a big computer corporation.
I play a Yamaha Custom CX.
Jen
Post Edited (2021-12-03 13:23)
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Author: ACCA
Date: 2021-12-03 14:33
Trained accountant and working near full time in it.
but playing clarinet & sax for 20 odd years and sometimes teaching it too.
Good luck to all on their journey.
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Author: jim sclater
Date: 2021-12-03 17:20
My main career was teaching music at a college for 40 years. This enabled me to play in the local orchestra and have time to compose. It would not have been possible for me to make a living solely as a player or serious composer. I loved teaching and enjoyed seeing my students grow and learn. I juggled three activities - teaching playing, and composing, and enjoyed them all.
jsclater@comcast.net
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-12-03 17:29
US Army Bands (Retired)
The career field is always changing, but I liked the options available when I needed something to keep me off the streets. You’ll have experiences you can’t get anywhere else.
…………….Paul Aviles
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Author: kilo
Date: 2021-12-03 17:30
Quote:
I was thinking yesterday that a lot of young players who love clarinet playing must feel under a lot of pressure to become professionals in order to follow their passion for music.
Michael Lowenstern addresses this about halfway through this short video clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEh99MdivmY
That's how I like to think of myself – a "musical contributor". Even as I was engaged in replacing the keel of a forty foot sailboat or installing a pocket door or planting trees or applying cedar shingles or any of the other ways I kept myself in reeds! Intervals, arpeggios, licks, and melodies in my head all day long.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2021-12-03 17:50
I like the "musical contributor" idea.
I'm a rubbish musician and I don't teach music for money. However, I think I'm definitely a musical contributor, because every time a new child visits our house I take all the outside panels off the piano to show them how it works, and then whip a 1/4 cello out of the cupboard and let them play it.
I'm not sure what they take away from that experience, but I hope it's something good.
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Author: earspasm
Date: 2021-12-03 18:39
SunnyDaze wrote me and asked if I could come over to write down some thoughts on this subject. Thanks @kilo for linking that video I did for Selmer. It captures my thinking pretty succinctly, which is something I'm not usually good at. They also had a good editor.
So, SunnyDaze asked specifically about options for young people who want to "double-major" in life (my wife's term for what I do, which I love).
In my teaching I have met a few "categories" of young people: 1) Those who don't enjoy anything else besides playing music; 2) Those who do enjoy things in addition to playing music, but never thought about those as career options; 3) Those who actively pursue something other than music, but want to keep music in their lives. Of course, each is a continuum, and there are nuances and variations to all. I started out as #2. I think a lot of kids do. So I'll focus there.
If you are someone who just looooooves the clarinet, and WANTS to make that your career, then by all means do it. But as you travel through your early life (e.g., in college/university), open your eyes to the ancillary parts of "being a musician." For example, do you like to edit your recordings of concerts? Do you like making recital posters, because you like the challenge of building an audience for your recitals? Do you like posting tips for others about the clarinet? Do you like making content on, I dunno, YouTube? Do you like improvising or composing? Do you enjoy organizing and staging concerts in the community? Do you like making things that help you play/hold/store/accessorize your instrument? Do you like designing websites to promote yourself? Do you like speaking to audiences from the stage before you perform a piece?
It goes on and on, and this is just a small list to get you thinking. But, you can see that each of these questions is an area that is still "within music" but that uses a slightly different part of your brain. AND, most importantly, they are TRANSFERABLE skills. By that I mean, they are skills that you have honed as a musician, but which can be deployed outside of music. Talking to audiences with confidence? You have the skill to talk to a conference room full of CEOs to present an idea. Design lots of recital posters? You could have a career in marketing (which, by the way, was my entree to working in advertising). Editing recordings? You could work in content creation and editing (and not just music, but you can do film editing as well as music editing).
Ideally, the point is to occupy your brain with things you enjoy, and find fulfilling (both emotionally and remuneratively). If that's playing in an orchestra, awesome—and I wish you great success (and luck)! But just know that you can also have a life where you "transfer" your skills to a different career, with the same emotional results—and often better financial ones. For me, after a big client pitch for an ad campaign, I literally get the same "High Five!!" dopamine rush that I get after a concert. And in that way, I know I'm doing the right thing for me.
So to all of you in college, especially if you are a music (performance) major, hear me now, and believe me later: You DO NOT have to make your living as a musician to be a performer at the highest level, to contribute to music, to be a highly-functioning "musical citizen," and to feel fulfilled. You are NOT "selling out." You are NOT "giving up." You are NOT "disappointing" anyone.
Finally, at the risk of offending people (since when do I shy away from that anyway?): I will take a good musical citizen over a "clarinet-owner-operator" any day of the week. I don't care if you play in the Phil or in your basement. Contribute, dammit. Like all of you do here every day, for each other, for young people, for the community. Seriously. I don't come around here often because I've found different outlets to contribute, but this place is special — my hat(s) are off to you all.
With respect,
Michael
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2021-12-03 19:05
Michael, fabulous information! Thanks (again) for your many contributions to clarinet playing.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2021-12-03 19:42
Hi Michael,
Thanks so much for posting that. You really give a balanced and welcoming view of the musical world, and I think is a great thing for young people coming through.
Thanks!
Jen
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2021-12-03 20:32
Attachment: HBD March.mp3 (395k)
Speaking as an old player trying not to be a 'clarinet-owner-user', I send this music at appropriate times to relatives etc;
All parts are recorded on an 8 track and then mixed together. I have no bass clarinet - so a Bb soprano part is digitally transposed down an octave.
I played professionally for 26 years while teaching in a university. I then retired from clarinet to write code and music for computer games. Retired from all in 2008, and am trying to find ways to keep involved with playing my clarinet.
Post Edited (2021-12-03 21:50)
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Author: Paul Globus
Date: 2021-12-03 20:53
The post above by Michael Lowenstern is right on. It should be read by every young player out there, no matter what he or she aspires to in the clarinet / music world.
I'm an old-timer who played professionally in orchestra for a number of years but who, at the same time, pursued other talents. I later transitioned into a career as a writer / journalist and, after that, a film producer. And yet in all of that time, I never gave up the instrument and still manage to practice just about every day. I guess one could say that I never lost my love for the clarinet and, in my head at least, remain a professional -- in terms of my attitude as opposed to my revenue stream.
Kudos to Mr. Lowenstern.
Paul Globus
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2021-12-03 21:51
Hi Paul,
I totally agree. I've always wanted to feel like a successful musician. Even at 46 years old, I'm really enjoying reading that post. It makes me feel as though I have permission to call myself a success, just as I am. Yay! :-)
Jen
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Author: kehammel
Date: 2021-12-03 21:58
I'm a recently retired biochemist. I did research and taught at a university for many years.
I'm strictly an amateur musician. I started out playing the oboe as a kid, and then changed to playing baroque and renaissance double reed instruments about 20 years ago. Then just recently I decided to learn the clarinet because it's used so much in Eastern European music, which I've always liked. My double reed playing is good enough to play in public concerts, which I love to do, so for sure I'm a "contributor." My clarinet playing is still pretty clumsy, but I hope to get there.
I could not have made it as a professional player of any instrument. To do that, you have to get all the fundamentals under your belt within a few years, so that instrument technique ceases to be a major issue. You need to understand harmony, and be able to hear the individual lines that other instruments are playing in your ensemble. Ideally, you should be able to sing your part at sight. These are areas in which I've gradually improved, but no way did I have what it takes to learn it all quickly when I was 20.
Instead, I learn as amateurs have always learned: I use the music that I'm currently playing as a tool to improve my skills. Meaning, an awkward passage or an intonation issue comes up, and once I solve it the improvement gradually shows up in other pieces. Then I'll come back to the original piece later and try to sing the part, or maybe figure out the implied harmony and change some of the notes. This osmosis method works and is fun, but it's much slower than the systematic practice of long tones, scales, and arpeggios that an aspiring professional needs.
I know some professional classical musicians, and what I hear from them is mixed. On one hand, they have the rewarding experience of producing a really high quality product in collaboration with other experts. That's also a worthy goal for amateurs, but their end product still won't be as good.
On the other hand, most professionals are on the road a lot and don't make much money. A bassoonist friend of mine said he was tired of this and especially tired of the feeling that he was just a cog in a machine in his professional symphony orchestra. He said it was all about technical reproducibility in playing the same part over and over again; there was little artistry involved.
Some pros are so stressed out from the pressure to make no mistakes that they take beta blockers, and that can hurt you. For some, the incessant practice leads to neuromuscular damage. I would say, if someone likes playing music much more than other activities, and is really good at it, then sure, they should consider going professional, but they should also be aware of the downside.
Once when I was bitching about my science job, my bassoonist friend said, "I think you've got a good gig."
Post Edited (2021-12-03 22:37)
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2021-12-03 22:16
Fabulous post Michael. Very inspiring and not just for young people!
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Author: BethGraham
Date: 2021-12-03 22:39
I, too, am an amateur musician -- a lover of music. I have sung in chorales and small choirs, played recorder in small ensembles and larger groups, and more recently, have been playing clarinet with small groups and looking forward to a return to band rehearsal.
Playing music has always been part of my life, but would never have been a career for me.
And now, back to practicing. I'm looking menacingly at you, Db major scale/
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2021-12-03 22:51
I do not believe anyone should be a "starving artist" or "sacrifice" themselves for art (or music). Give me a day job to pay the bills and provide retirement security any time! I played in a U.S. Army band but (being unmilitary) did not want to make a career of that. My day jobs have included historical researcher for a local museum, tour guide, special projects writer and regular enrollment advisor for a community college, and tutor in English for foreign students (especially Vietnamese refugees). I've enjoyed all my non-musical jobs as much as my musical ones as a clarinetist. Time spent outside the rarified community of musicians gave me a valuable perspective and balance as well as relative economic stability.
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2021-12-04 02:31
I was a star in HS. All State, 1st chair All County and All City (Yonkers, NY). At Queens College there were 3 others in the orchestra of equal ability. My teacher (Russianoff) said he advised all of his students to get their ed. courses, and I said I already had started that. I had a 19 year career as a Band Director, mostly in Thompson in Northern Manitoba. Summers off allowed me to keep up my pro. playing in the NYC area, which I still do (except last 2 summers with the US border closed to driving in from Canada). I was also able to do a lot of soloing in Western Canada, so I kept up with my playing-- got my MM in performance in 1981.
I recently learned that my own HS band director had once played clarinet in the KC Symphony-- well, I had heard him practicing and knew he was good. In 12th grade he told me that if I wanted to go into performance to never take a Band Director job. The salary is a sure thing. He also said that I'd probably never leave teaching and he was right-- until I retired in '96. And oh yeah, I wrote the book.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
Post Edited (2021-12-04 02:32)
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2021-12-04 11:46
I'm strictly an amateur musician and a pretty mediocre one at that. I played clarinet at school, and after that I played when I was in the Air Force. Not as a musician, I was a radar technician, but I played in the station band and in a couple of local jazz clubs.
When I left the Air Force and had to get a real job (as a computer engineer) I put the clarinet away and didn't touch it for the next 43 years. When I retired 16 years ago I bought an old Evette and started on scales. The muscle memory was still there and the old skills came back very quickly. When I thought I was up to speed I joined a local community band, and later joined another more advanced band.
I still play with both and enjoy it immensely. While I've never been any great shakes as a musician I do have very good mechanical skills and have always worked on my own instruments. These days I spend a lot of time working on other band members instruments and instruments from local schools.
Tony F.
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2021-12-04 20:21
Back in the 80s, as a teenager, I had equal interest in clarinet playing and computers, but chose the latter. Glad I did. A mediocre engineer makes more than an outstanding musician and does not depend on tax payers' money. I took up music again in my 40s and thankfully had played a lot in that magical window, at age 14 to 18 years. I have heard horror stories from pro musicians about colleagues who retired and never touched their instruments again. They were true 'instrument operators'.
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Author: Reese Oller
Date: 2021-12-04 20:50
Seems like computers are the way to go, then, based off of everyone's advice!
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2021-12-04 20:56
(spoiler alert, this is humor)
Jen:
I'm a stripper (not the paint kind) at bachelorette parties.
Old lady second/third marriage parties are my specialty. With advacing age, the "bod" isn't what it use to be so I can't compete with the young guys for the first marriage young lady parties. But where the bod lacks, my experience and price shines.
If a visual is required, think Chris Farley not Patrick Swayze here:
https://youtu.be/stqG2ihMvP0?t=123
The good thing is that I've been able to incorporate my clarinet into my routine. From playing music in my dance moves, to its use in ways that this forum's decorum won't let me describe, it's allowed me to pay the rent despite the lack of ample professional music gigs.
NOT.
I'm a retired computer systems nerd and 40 year amateur in love with playing clarinet.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2021-12-04 21:44
SecondTry - That is excellent. But I'm glad you're a computer guy in real life. :-)
Reese - It does seem like that. I'm definitely getting good vibes about computers as a way to support the clarinet-playing lifestyle here.
From personal experience - having a computer job combines very well with clarinet playing in another way.
I do all my volunteer computer systems work from home, which means I have the house to myself for clarinet practise during the day. That means that if I suddenly get wild ideas about videoing myself playing altissimo scales, then I can do it without disturbing anyone. That is a definite perk for a musician.
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Author: lmliberson
Date: 2021-12-05 00:28
Just a thought after reading what Johan H Nilsson said:
Please be very careful when painting with a broad brush in regards to those who choose not to play their instruments after retiring from an orchestral position - or, for that matter, any kind of music related job or a career in any field.
In regards to those particular clarinetists, to label them as “instrument operators” is extremely insulting. Do you happen to know what they did during their working lives?
I have worked many years with those who continued playing after retiring and those who stopped playing completely. During their careers they all taught, coached, performed chamber music, etc. Hardly that of an “instrument operator” IMHO. They were dedicated to their art, their colleagues and their students, not to mention the community in which they lived and performed in these various roles.
But there are perfectly legitimate reasons for discontinuing playing once retired. One is the sense of not being tied down to the instrument. I rarely go anywhere now without my instruments - even while on some vacations. I know I need to stay in top playing shape as, when I return home, I will be right back there on stage where I’m expected to be ready to play anything. When one is retired, that expectation no longer exists and, just perhaps, a certain retiree might want to ease off a bit? Or perhaps when not maintaining that performance level of what was expected during their careers they simply don’t like what they hear anymore? (Heck, I can hardly stand what I sound like sometimes!). They have certainly earned that right. Besides that, there are other things in life - travel, family, volunteering, and just plain relaxation - than playing the clarinet. Hardly a horror story.
And think about it: what else is there to prove - to others or to one’s self? You very well might have played much of the repertoire several times and while you (at least in my case) love to play and are not tired of that repertoire, please tell me where you are going to play that music with like-minded and equally accomplished musicians? A community orchestra? A community band? Be realistic now. After performing for several decades (I’m in my 46th year as a member of a major American orchestra) now with those among the finest in my profession, I can’t see that as a viable outlet for whatever talent and skill I might still have upon retiring. I’m not minimizing those who play in those ensembles or the quality of those groups but, after hearing more than a few of them, well, it’s not for me and I suspect many of those who have retired from major orchestras also share those same sentiments. You can infer whatever you’d like from that comment.
Sure, there are those who are unhappy and/or bitter and chuck their instruments and never look at them again. However, that hardly describes the reality of our world. There are those, again, who leave all kinds of professions unhappy and bitter. But not all. Hardly.
When I was a teenager (back in the dark ages), I vividly recall my grandmother (your stereotypical Jewish grandmother, btw!) saying that “being a musician is okay but maybe you could be a doctor or lawyer on the side?”. Well, I have very happily been a musician for many years now - a musician, not just a clarinetist, mind you - and when I retire (which will likely be sooner rather than later), I will still be a musician. Whether or not I continue to play with the same kind of frequency and intensity has yet to be determined. I’m pretty sure it will be nothing like it is at the present.
My wife is a pianist so I’m looking forward to working on some solo repertoire with her that I haven’t yet had much of a chance to delve into. Also, I love clarinet quartets - maybe some of that is in my future?
Or maybe I’ll just pay occasional attention to my clarinets in deference to my stack of crossword puzzles, reading material, and the upcoming ski trips. Who knows?
But it hardly sounds like horror to me.
Post Edited (2021-12-05 01:57)
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2021-12-05 01:27
I agree that calling those who don't touch the instrument after they retire mere "instrument operators" is absurdly reductionist and presumptuous. Classical saxophone pioneer Marcel Mule, after playing his last concert is said to have laid the instrument aside permanently. And Artie Shaw, one of the all-time great jazz clarinetists, also refused to play another note on his clarinets after making his final recordings. Was he just an instrument operator--an elevator boy pushing buttons--or an innovative stylist of major proportions? During their performance careers, Mule and Shaw were dedicated to their respective instruments to a fault---often practicing for longer hours than most people work. If they wanted to do something else later in life, who can blame them for that. Or any other player who wants to do the same?
Post Edited (2021-12-05 04:31)
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2021-12-05 03:11
lmliberson:
"Please be very careful when painting with a broad brush in regards to those who choose not to play their instruments after retiring from an orchestral position"
I just referred to what my pro musician friend told me. Some of her colleagues had been sitting in orchestras for decades and were so fed up they never touched their instruments when they retired. She, on the other hand, is a multi-instrumentalist and singer and has done a variety of jobs. She is still takes gigs in her 70s.
Btw, talking about crosswords, she used to have one on her stand when she played in musical theater orchestras in the evenings. By the 60th show you probably find it a bit repetitive...
seabreeze:
"I agree that calling those who don't touch the instrument after they retire mere "instrument operators" is absurdly reductionist and presumptuous."
How lucky no one did!
Post Edited (2021-12-05 03:23)
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-12-05 04:37
up until a few years ago i had dual carriers. day job and musician by nite. i did this from age 15 till 55 and decided i was getting to old for dual carriers and gave up music in favor of my sucessfull lawn biz. i got to miss it too much and rejoined a community band playing bass and alto clarinet. i do not miss the bar scene at all. that i am too old for now lol.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2021-12-05 11:19
Hi lmliberson,
Thanks for making that point. I think that we all have only admiration for professional players here, and wouldn't judge them for wanting to retire.
Johan - Thanks also for clarifying.
I think we can call that a solved problem now.
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Author: hans
Date: 2021-12-06 03:47
Retired, after a career in the petrochemical industry, followed by teaching university (Business).
I played clarinet and saxes in my high school and university bands. Met my wife in the university band in 1965. I played clarinet, she played sax, I switched to sax so that I could sit next to her and we've been married for >53 years.
I had my own 9 piece swing band (in the '60s) and have played in a symphony orchestra, big bands, and a swing quartet. It is a hobby that I have enjoyed but had to interrupt for our recent move from Ontario to British Columbia. I hope to restart it eventually.
Hans
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2021-12-06 09:57
Hi Hans,
I love that you changed instrument to sit next to your wife. It seems to me that that is the kind of attitude that gets a person >53 years of marriage. :-) Well done!
Jen
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2021-12-06 19:48
My professional career was as as a plant cell biologist for the USDA doing research but I was involved in symphony and bands plus musical pit orchestras pretty much throughout my career. Luckily I played the "other" clarinets well so I was always welcome to play in groups and also played oboe and English horn.
Upon retirement in 2010, I have had a much larger musical experience, playing in several groups on all members of the clarinet and oboe families. I also play oboe in a woodwind quintet and more rarely Eb and bass in a clarinet choir. These musical experiences include playing the bass clarinet solo "The Castle of Doctor Bassclar" and an upcoming performing of "Scent" for Eb clarinet and wind band. Neither piece is for the faint of heart but lots of fun.
Music has added so much to my life and I'm eternally grateful for having it as a part of my life. I've met lots of wonderful people who are lifetime friends too.
Eefer guy
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Author: Reese Oller
Date: 2021-12-06 20:15
I have sniffed around for musical career options and I have found one: Instrument repair! My band director has told me it can be a lucrative career that allows me to stay close to the musical world. Plus, I have multiple people I can shadow! He is going to lend me an old clarinet to try to repad.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2021-12-07 20:10
lmliberson wrote:
"...
Please be very careful when painting with a broad brush in regards to those who choose not to play their instruments after retiring from an orchestral position - or, for that matter, any kind of music related job or a career in any field.
...... perhaps when not maintaining that performance level of what was expected during their careers they simply don’t like what they hear anymore? (Heck, I can hardly stand what I sound like sometimes!)."
Well put: I played clarinet professionally before coming to the USA, but stopped playing completely because I did not think I could compete with American players.
Now that I re-started playing as an amateur after a 26 years break, I don't like to record myself because I do not like to hear what I sound like...
I completely understand those players who had to play the same performances for years and who now do not want to touch their instruments.
Also, I can understand those retired musicians who would not want to play with an amateur group because of the difference in the level of performance...
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2021-12-08 21:43
Hi Ebclarinet1,
I was in plant development at the John Innes Centre. Nice to know you're a plant person too.
Jen
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Author: BobW
Date: 2021-12-10 04:59
In High School I thought about a music career, however I had no clue
about what it entailed. I went to college for science, ended up in medicine.
I am a General Surgeon for 30 years, who loves to play his clarinet for a hobby
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2021-12-10 22:59
Hans wrote: "I switched to sax so that I could sit next to her"
I think I can spot a transformation chain here:
1. Clarinet.
2. Sax.
3. Sex.
It doesn't sound too well for the outlook of our favorite instrument!
But, maybe as things mature, we return to our roots... :-)
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