 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: farabout
Date: 2021-10-07 22:46
Does anyone make d'amore bell (alla cor anglais) which is compatible with standard Boehm/French system Bb/A clarinets?
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Author: farabout
Date: 2021-10-08 01:18
Nope - Herr Gerold himself says that his bell will only fit on Gerold's in-house Oehler/Mueller/German system clarinet, but not on any standard Boehm/French (such as Buffet, Selmer et al).
Post Edited (2021-10-08 01:26)
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Author: ruben
Date: 2021-10-08 16:51
JDbass: what effect do these bulbous bells have on tone and intonation? I am definitely intrigued. Your bells are certainly beautiful to look at.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
Post Edited (2021-10-08 17:15)
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2021-10-08 18:00
Intonation wise they are almost identical to a normal bell. Tone wise they sound very different, almost like it adds a sort of echo/reverb. In my experience they have more of an effect on tone than any other bell or even barrel on the market.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: ruben
Date: 2021-10-08 19:57
Could you e-mail me? You have my address after my posts. Thank you.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: gwie
Date: 2021-10-08 23:01
Are Gerold's bells socket too small to fit the tenon on the standard Boehm clarinets?
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Author: farabout
Date: 2021-10-08 23:05
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=471886&t=471877
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-10-10 00:29
Sockets can always be enlarged if they're too narrow for the tenons to fit into, likewise sockets that are too wide can always be sleeved to narrow them down. Nothing is impossible if you or anyone has the ways and means to alter things to suit.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: farabout
Date: 2021-10-10 02:19
Chris P wrote:
> Sockets can always be enlarged if they're too narrow for the
> tenons to fit into
>
Yeah, right: at the risk of a subsequent crack of the thinned wall of thus enlarged socket. Not to mention the inner bore mismatch between 2 elements.
Post Edited (2021-10-10 02:35)
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Author: donald
Date: 2021-10-10 02:35
Of course the socket can be adjust in many cases. I'd think the real issue is whether it works acoustically as the maker intended - with a French bore clarinet rather than a German bore (which remains relatively parallel in the lower end of the the lower joint, this explaining the extra venting necessary for the G/D 12th).
It might work just fine, only one way to find out.
A friend of mine (who is a trained bassoon maker but now just does repairs/alterations etc) made a couple of the bells on his 3D printer, and I was the play tester for his first couple... they really did make an interesting difference but while he was experimenting with designs we found it was easy to improve SOME notes (one design produced an amazing sounding f/c 12th for instance) but it wasn't helpful if this resulted in some notes being changed more than adjacent notes notes.
He's made a few more in the last 9 months that I haven't been able to try out, and is currently in the middle of moving house/workshop so I doubt I will have the chance any time soon, but from the early ones I tried there were some really encouraging results I'm sure that there is great potential in this (as JD bass player and Gerold have undoubtedly discovered).
dn
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-10-11 21:19
farabout: "Yeah, right: at the risk of a subsequent crack of the thinned wall of thus enlarged socket. Not to mention the inner bore mismatch between 2 elements."
It's hardly a risk if the difference between fitting and not fitting is a mere fraction of a millimetre.
Please tell me exactly how thin the socket wall is.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-10-12 02:22
farabout wrote:
> Big "if"
Please tell me exactly how thin the socket wall is.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-10-13 17:49
What male/model clarinet bell are you getting that measurement from?
Most clarinet bells have a socket wall thickness of 3.25mm immediately below the socket ring widening to over 4mm at the base of the socket where the wall thickness of the bell then widens to around 6mm thick at that point.
If the socket walls were 1.14mm thick, there was no way I'd have been able to carbon fibre band cracked sockets to a depth of over 1mm and then cover over the carbon fibre with filler to disguise them.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2021-10-13 18:41)
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Author: farabout
Date: 2021-10-13 19:47
Thanks Chris. That's precisely what I thought. The measured 1.14mm refers to the grenadilla thickness at the top of the bell socket and not counting the metal ring around it.
Post Edited (2021-10-13 19:50)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-10-13 19:51
Attachment: P5020006 (1).JPG (709k)
Even on ringless bell sockets where the profile is smooth, the wall thickness of the socket will be over 3mm thick. No sockets should be left ringless no matter how thick the wood is, so for added strength, all sockets should be reinforced with a socket ring - either metal or carbon fibre banded as wood will naturally want to split along the grain if any undue pressure from within causes stress.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2021-10-23 00:17
I am sorry that there was an error with the sizing, I had no idea that Selmer changed bell tenon sizes somewhere in their production run (First bell was sized for older Selmers which have a wider socket). The first bell has NOT arrived back (Which I paid return shipping for) and if you check the tracking your new bell with the correct sizing is on the way. As I said I shipped it yesterday and I am true to my word. As for #5 the first message I see addressing your concerns came at 9:30am this morning. I apologize about the 6 hour delay in response time but I have been working all day and haven’t had a chance to check my email yet. The replacement bell only shipped yesterday, shipping takes 2-5 business days especially cross country.
I am trying to do my best to make sure you are satisfied at no additional expense to you, but if you are still unsatisfied I am happy to refund all costs after I receive the bells back.
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2021-10-23 02:29
farabout- it's clear that you have received upstanding and professional service from jdbassplayer. Your last post was in very bad taste.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-10-23 03:41
2. The bell which he subsequently shipped was faulty due to the error on his part (socket too wide for standard models).
Why is that faulty? Sockets that are on the wide side are hardly a fault and easily rectified by wrapping paper around the tenon cork which for something that you're not going to use full time is hardly the crime of the millennium.
GET A GRIP AND GET A FUCKING LIFE.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: ghoulcaster
Date: 2021-10-26 22:51
Farabout, if your grip is got, then do you mind reporting on the tone? I am also curious about these bulbous bells.
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Author: ghoulcaster
Date: 2021-10-27 06:56
I appreciate the video response! That is so, so cool. The tone is impacted much more than I had suspected!
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Author: ghoulcaster
Date: 2021-10-28 02:33
Bells will ring, ting a-ling a-ling, ting a-ling a-ling. That’s D’amore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi8beYR1iBQ
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