 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jim sclater
Date: 2021-07-09 16:19
This subject may have been covered earlier. If so, apologies in advance. I'm looking for a mike that can be put on a mike stand that will do a good job in a live performance situation. Mikes that clip on the clarinet have been recommended but I haven't had too much luck making these work.The clips often just don't fit on the bell securely.
Anyone with any experience with a Shure 81 or a Shure 137? Specific or general recommendations welcomed. Thanks.
jsclater@comcast.net
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-07-09 16:51
Sounds like you're in the $150 dollar range. I'm not familiar with those two particular mics but Shure makes decent mics in that price range and condensers are more sensitive which will pick up a wider spectrum of frequencies.
I'd suggest positioning the mic around the middle of the horn or you'll just get the honkiness coming out the bell.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-07-09 17:01
shure sm 58. you need a vocal mike -not a narrow beam instrument mike like the sm57. the clarinet is difficult to mike
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-07-09 19:24
I'd have to strongly disagree on the 58. I have to say I LOVE the Shure 58 as a vocal mic. You get in really close and sing INTO this mic. It is great at rejecting other sounds around that because of that. But is is dynamic (meaning a physical element needs to move) and hence cannot pick up the details that that condenser can (no moving parts; works off electric charge....needs 48v phantom power). Finally the 58 (and 57....same mic just different configuration of the top) is a tank. Though I'd never recommend throwing your gear around, you can get away with A LOT of abuse with a 58 that would kill just about anything else.
Just don't use it on a clarinet.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris_C ★2017
Date: 2021-07-09 20:20
Caveat: Not a professional sound engineer so probably best to ignore me.. the best advice will come from professionals...
During lockdown I've done a fair bit of recording of my clarinet. Because the sound comes out of all the tone holes at different times, clipping onto the bell is clearly the worst place. I have found that about 150-200mm above the LH, and a little to the side is the best place (at least for my microphone, clarinet and room). Of course, this probably will not work for live situations - or indeed for any of the other variables. Experimentation seems to be the only way forward.
I have seen clips for electrets/Lavaliers which seem to attach like a lyre using a ring between the barrel and upper joint; it would be interesting to know if anyone has good or bad experience with them.
Saxophone seems much easier to record - I get reasonable results with the microphone clipped to the upright of the music stand...
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2021-07-10 07:20
>> Mikes that clip on the clarinet have been recommended but I haven't had too much luck making these work.The clips often just don't fit on the bell securely <<
If that is the issue, what models exactly have you tried? Because there are several clip on mics that don't have this problem.
The SM57/SM58 that was suggested is sort of a last resort in some situations, but often not a great option. If it's not a loud stage, other options are better. If it's a loud environment then something like that might be the best compromise if you don't use a clip on mic.
If you give more details about the situation then it might be possible to recommend something. I use at least four types of microphones for live concerts, depending on the situation.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-07-10 14:40
So for a Shure clip on Clarnibass are you referring to the PGA98H?
I still firmly believe you need to get further away from a clarinet.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2021-07-10 21:19
Not sure what you mean. I wasn't referring to any clip on Shure mic, or any specific mic (other than the SM57/58).
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-07-11 00:20
Sorry.
I conflated the quote and the following statement about mics.
I just want to make sure we are all talking about the same things. There are folks using all sorts of poor mic choices for clarinet. In my opinion clip ons are to be avoided. And even though you may not get the best isolation with a dedicated solo mic off to the side with a few feet of distance, you'll still get the 're-enforcement' you need for live sound, and that sound will be MUCH better.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2021-07-12 06:55
In some situations what you described as to be avoided can be ideal and what you described as the best option can be impossible, and the exact opposite in other situations.
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2021-07-17 03:19
Yeah, a nice condenser is great when the volume level on stage is reasonably controlled, but if you're in a situation where the stage volume is high and there are a lot of other instruments around you, like in a big band, the SM58 is a great mic to know how to use (positioning, how to stand and move around it).
When playing in a big band, for example, I'll usually see techs bringing out the SM57 or similar for the soloist mics and if I am playing any clarinet, I'll usually ask if they would be open to an SM58 or similar.
I've had the chance to play in controlled live environments with nicer condensers (provided by the venue), but those were usually solo with electronics or with small enough ensembles that we could space out enough to avoid bleed.
In general, though, my experience is that live mic-ing always requires some compromise. An SM58 is a good tool to have, since it will work when other options don't. I would like to find a good clip on type mic for my bass clarinet, but options there seem expensive.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-07-17 08:04
Since a 58 is a dependent on close proximity, are you guys bending down for the shorter tube notes and leaning back for the longer tube notes. I don't see any other way to get an even sound over the range of the horn with this mic.
....................Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-07-17 08:56
Clearly not every big band will be able to do things this way but consider the sound here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ-yXQItCGg
You've got all the saxes on nice side-address condensers and all the trumpets on ribbons.
I concede the presence of 58s for flute and clarinet but used in tandem with condensers (I'm sure).
NICE
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2021-07-18 04:39
With all due respect to the sound professionals I've worked with in the past, I'm pretty sure Lincoln Center has better ones with access to better microphones.
The 58's got a wide enough pattern that it will capture enough for most loud settings I've been in. It's a significantly wider pattern than the 57, so I just point it generally towards the middle of the instrument and it works fine. I move enough when I play that that creates more unevenness than anything else.
I wouldn't use it in a studio setting where we could control more of the parameters, but it works just fine for times when you really can't. Add to that that every bar, club, theater, stadium, public school, church, etc. in the US has at least a few SM58's kicking around and it ends up being one that you have to learn to use. Figure out how close you need to be, where to point it and how to angle it to minimize the effects of your own body movements on the amplification. Sound people will like that and take an extra minute to EQ you if you are nice to them.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-07-18 22:39
The only difference between the Shure SM57 and the Shure SM58 is the fact that the Shure SM58 has a round pop filter on the top.
Also a cardioid polar pattern is just that......heart shaped. The mics will still pick up MORE of what is closer and less of what is further away (and I mean in inches).
The Lincoln center folks had them up over the heads of the players and pointed down. Probably the best position for that mic to get a general sound out of woodwind.
All I'm saying is just because most venues can afford a mic locker full of $100.00 microphones doesn't mean they are the best for the job. One should keep an open mind and experiment with some others on the market.
...............Paul Aviles
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