 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jan
Date: 2001-07-15 11:16
first of all, i want to thank everyone for your input. i always take all my replies seriously when i ask questions here, and think about what each person has to say.
i think before i make i switch, i otta send it in for its "20,000 note check up" first. perhaps a tweak and some cork pads may be helpful for the problems i am having. i guess i didnt try all avenues before giving up on it.(psyching myself out maybe)
the only thing is that i dont have a repair tech and despite the problems i dont want to let my clarinet to be worked on by just anybody. i have come to trust several people here as knowledgable, good people (ken shaw, brenda s, & j.butler) to name a few...i am hoping john or any of the other repair people who frequent this site could work on it. Or, any suggestions from you folks out there?
thanks again guys
jan
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-07-15 14:16
Give the Brannens a call (they're Sneezy sponsors) and see if they do that kind of thing on Selmer Signatures. They specialize in Buffets, but their ad says they do other brands of professional clarinets. Or, ask some of the other sponsors like John Butler. I've never personally done business with him about this type of work (like I have with the Brannens), but I'm sure he's a knowledgeable person.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-07-15 14:39
Cork pads on the upper joint of the Signature?
From what I have read, I don't think I would do that. If there tone holes thats Selmer uses cork pads on at the factory, YES .. that would be fine.
1 - Selmer uses a VERY, VERY FINE PAD that is specially made for the Signature. (I owned A Signature & did some research)
2 - Cork pads are tough-er to seat properly. Only experts, like a John Butler, Jimmy Van, Gordon Palmer the Brannens, Tim Clark. These folks know ho to float pads de jeure. Cork offers a much longer life (IMO) if made & installed properly. It does not absorb moisture. (some say there are pro's & con's to this) But, some complain about the NOISE from cork. So its not all win-win. Cork pads can easily last 10 years. Few pro's wait that long. 20k notes, 500k notes, 1000k notes, new clarinet, 20k notes .... : )
3 - the pad cups on the Selmer Signature involve a very close clearance with the tone holes. Usually pad cups (which hold the pads) are large enough that when comparing their diameter (or area) to the tone hole ... things are not quite so exact.
Thus, the Signature involves a delicate realtionship between the pad cup/pad & the tone hole.
IMO you should use the finest (tmpons en double baudruche) double fishskin pad (or handmade) you can find. I vote to pass on the Cork except for the regsiter key & other keys which Selmer uses cork on. BTW: When I looked at some of the pads on the Signature I had they looked very much like Gortex on some pads on the uipper joint. I tried to access the Selmer website but it is down or being re-tooled. Their French brother is up.
I am not a clarinet master mechanic by any stretch of the imagination. However, no doubt some will check in here.
Best,
mw
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Author: William
Date: 2001-07-15 16:10
If you are going to have adjustment made to the bore of your Sig or will undercutting tone holes, then I suggest you seek out a qualified tech shop such as the Brannens. Cork pads can be installed by any qualified music store technician who specializies on woodwinds. I have cork pads on the upper joints of all my Selmers (CT & 9*), Buffet R-13s and my LeBlanc Concertos (all installed at or local music store by various techs) and have had remarkably fewer problems over the years with the cork than with the other conventional skin pads wearing out, shifting and otherwise developing insidious leaks that will just "ruin your day." Cork pads are much more reliable that skin pads as they do do absorb moisture and will seemingly never wear out. They are not excessively noisy if your develope and use a legato style finger action when necessary for smooth and lyrical note transition--same as you need to do with skin pads. However, it is still MHO that the basic problem with the Selmer Signiture clarinet is not in the integrity of its construction at the factory (Selmers are very well built clarinets) but rather in the accoustical design of its bore which produces a tone quality that losses focus and restricts freedom of musical expression. So, again my rating for the Selmer Signiture is: Thumbs Up--for its supurb intonation, even scale and quality of construction; but Thumbs Down--for its restrictive tone quality and inflexable performance characteristic. Who wants drive the most well-built car available if its engine does not accelorate evenly and the ride becomes bumpy below 40 mph??? Good Driv...... (opps) Clarineting!!!!!!!!!!!!! (and I hope you have good luck with your Sig)
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-07-15 16:39
William, with no disrepect: I have Selmer CT, BT, 9 & 9* in front of me on the table right now as I speak.. I think you will find that the tone holes on these instruments are DIFFERENT than the (_raised, wooden_) tone holes utilized on the Selmer Signature. Ther Selmer Signature features tone hols which are glued into the horn. Called an integral tone hole. Yamah uses these on several of their horns, too. (custom/se series & CX)
Best,
mw
PS Cork Pads work wonderfully on the CT, BT, 9, 9*, 10 all the way throough the line. I don't anything about the 10S II and the Recital series.
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2001-07-15 18:19
I need to start counting how many notes i play :
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Author: William
Date: 2001-07-15 20:56
MW--No disrespect taken, in fact, I don't understand your comment. My only refference to tones holes was in the extra undercutting to fine-tine the response and tuning of certain notes which is common practice when accousticians "tweek" pro instruments. And that should only be done by trained professionals like the Brannens or Tom Ridenour. And, I am an experianced believer in the corked upper joint for accoustical and practical reasons. Selmer Signitures are well-built instruments (as are all Selmer instruments), they just have inherant accoustical design problems that are difficult at best to correct or to perform with. Now, having replied, I hope that we are still cyberfriends who can agree to disagree once-in-a-while for the good cause of advancement and nurturing of Good Clarineting!!!!!
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-07-15 21:39
Jan, back to your problem--if you've been so unhappy with your Signature that you've thought about buying a totally different brand of clarinet--perhaps you should have another opinion from an expert on clarinets. Why don't you go to the Selmer website and send Ed Riley an email? He is such a nice man, and he certainly wants the Signature to get a fair chance with players. He worked pretty hard to help me with the ones I tried. He gave me Tom Ridenour's personal phone no. and email address, as well as other information. Perhaps you can find out what kind of adjustments to get to help you get better performance out of your instrument.
Signatures are certainly Selmer's flagship instrument and are quite nice as far as "feel" in the hand. Tom spoke highly of his test run on one, and I'm certain there must be a way to "redeem" your love for your expensive investment. Work with what you have it won't work for you anymore and then look for something that does.
I have a feeling it will work out well for you.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-07-16 00:56
Yes, William, I don't think I got my point across or for whatever reason we aren't communicating on point. I am not upset in the least either; although I WOULD like to communicate! : )
What I am saying is ---- I do _NOT_ believe that Cork Pads will work well on the Selmer Signature. The Pad Cups are small & _just_ can accomplish their task with the tone holes. I think the risk for problems (all the time) would be greatly enhanced with Cork Pads on the Selmer Signature. I am pretty sure they used Gortex on the Upper Joint (at least) of the Signature that I had (but since sold to a Klarinet List'er out of Dallas) [[ Gortex is a peculiar product & wqhen you feel its sponge-like material you don't forget it too soon ]]
Perhaps I am wrong. It won't be the first time, nor the last.
I will agree --- 100% --- that on anything else --- even the Yamaha's --- that Cork Pads are an IMPROVEMENT to me. I don't find them noisier, they don't get waterlogged --- I PREFER them!
Best,
mw
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