 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2021-06-23 05:05
I recently wrote a post seeking information on playing very high notes.
This led, no huge surprise, to a discussion of Ginastera's Variaciones Concertantes--known for its stratospheric clarinet solo, complete with a Youtube link, which when I clicked, Youtube offered me the opportunity to watch, among other related videos, James Zimmermann's discussion of same.
I thoroughly enjoy Mr. Zimmermann's content and am not the only one here who does. In fact this very video's been previously cited on the board:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=465748&t=465748
I had stumbled upon Mr. Zimmermann's videos years early, googled him, and read a story that made my heart (no pun intended) stop.
With two young kids, his wife Candice suffered from, if I've got this correct, a sudden death aortic aneurism. (James, if you're reading this, I hope I got that right.) These things are called silent killers for their often lacking physical symptoms and diagnosis usually only through CT scan.
Again, I googled him today. And again I read something that made me sad.
https://bootcamps.vanderbilt.edu/blog/when-covid-19-struck-james-zimmermann-traded-in-his-classical-music-career-for-the-coding-boot-camp/
Given his lack of income in Covid, he left the Nashville Symphony and retrained in computer coding.
Maybe I shouldn't feel sad for James. Maybe (I hope) he is happy. When I reached out to him years ago with my sympathies over his wife's death he was very positive and appreciative, discussing how life was on the mend.
Maybe I should be happy he wasn't one of the tens of thousands who died from Covid.
It's just that it takes such work and talent to make it as a symphony player. You have to be the best of the best, of the best. Auditions are grueling; the competition for openings insane. Sure, aspiring musicians know this going into the field.
But after all that work. Sigh.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-06-23 07:24
its important to have a back up career in this biz.
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Author: rmk54
Date: 2021-06-23 16:28
tens of thousands who died from Covid.
------------------------------
You mean hundreds of thousands, no?
617,875 just in the US and counting...
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2021-06-23 19:14
super20dan wrote:
> its important to have a back up career in this biz.
so true...and yet for the commitment and rare talent required, to me, it's a little like saying, "why not get that electrician's license in case the whole neurosurgery thing's a bust"
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2021-06-23 20:46
Hi All,
I remember the expression we used to use on the stand of "don't quit your day gig..." as the same thing would probably apply to the positions held by players on this BB. My day gig has been 53 continuous years of high school as a band director and in a totally different field for university teaching and administration.
The thought as a teen that I could be at the top of the heap of professional woodwind players never really occurred to me. But as an educator, I had time to play lots of interesting gigs (jazz, pit, circus, shows, orchestra, polka, society, chamber, wind ensemble..." I played my first pay gig in about 1954 and still make money; but there was never enough to support a family.
I know a lot of symphony players who are on the faculty at higher education institutions in my area. Among some of my students are a lot of firefighters who have a small business like carpentry or electrical work on the side. But if you are a university faculty member, your institution probably has a limitation as to the percentage of work you can do outside of your "day gig."
HRL
PS If all else fails think of it another way: "One can always reinvent themselves."
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2021-06-23 23:34
A bit of a "rant", but only intended FWIW:
Not everyone wants to be, or can be in IT. I've struggled with this.
We have a severely dysfunctional society regarding vocations. In spite of all our advantages at this point, especially in the US, our economy is shrinking in terms of diversity of pursuits and in self-reliance. It makes us less capable. For example, last time I looked you could not buy a steel water bottle made in the US (if you didn't grow up in PA, you may not understand just how flummoxing this is). Outsourcing makes us rich monetarily, but it robs us of less tangible advantages that we do not see, because they are no longer present.
The Jazz age and the era of the Big Bands couldn't happen today. "The American Songbook", and the musical societies of the Gilded Age could not happen today.
There should be more jobs for clarinetists than a few symphony and teaching positions. The really demanding ones should offer a good salary.
I saw an unmiked mother/daughter duo one Christmas at George Washington's Mt. Vernon. They were modest but competent. It completely transformed the place. It was like paradise.
(I know someone will say "We have community bands, etc." It's not the same. It may be less obvious if you are actively involved in the musical community in some way, by teaching, etc. because you are always around it. Most people experience music only as recorded ambiance to their daily activities.)
- Matthew Simington
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Author: LFabian
Date: 2021-06-24 00:33
After finishing college with a music degree, I decided to go get a full time job (with all the necessary perks) and teach piano part time. After my wife and 3 grown children and retirement, it was time to renew and update my love for both piano and clarinet. Playing for my own fun and not for money was the best decision in my life. I’m glad I did it.
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Author: JEG ★2017
Date: 2021-06-24 01:14
I quit the music profession in 1986 for a full-time IT position. It wasn't something I wanted to do but I had a son about to start kindergarten and wanted to put him in a better school system. Luckily, I was good at coding and made a good living until I retired at the end of 2019.
It was a big change leaving music. I had a few gigs in Boston plus teaching but I realized that if I didn't make the change in my mid-30s I would regret it in the long term. People would tell me that it was a shame to have to quit music; I would tell them that music didn't owe me anything and I had to think of other things.
I picked up the clarinet again in 2000 and have been playing ever since. Now that I'm retired I can make clarinet my main focus, and I have to say that I enjoy the practicing and the progress I'm making immensely. I play in community orchestras and the occasional odd job.
I realize now that I wasn't up to the demands that being a top-flite professional required. It is what it is.
I guess my point is that we need to be happy with our choices. Things didn't work out as planned for me but because I got out and was able to save for retirement I am now able to play for myself in relative comfort.
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2021-06-24 03:19
Per the topic of professional musician:
Bing Crosby and Louis Armstrong were classified as professional musicians, yet they spent a considerable amount of time playing roles in film, writing, investing in technology, and partaking in other income-producing endeavors. Certainly, the reason for their name recognition was originally music...but can their status be so surely pinpointed in the absence of early film? My opinion on this has changed over the years.
I was being instructed as part of a group - by a top NYC musician who shared, "At the age I am now - knowing what I know now, I'm not certain I would have made the decision to be (solely) a musician, or even recommend it to anyone. There are certain comforts and stabilities missing in life which I see being enjoyed by those my age who chose different paths, and I would have to seriously consider it if faced with that decision now." This is a musician who sells out large auditoriums all around the globe.
Per the topic of Jazz and Big Band:
The government hated jazz. Society hated jazz. New Orleans ("The Birthplace of Jazz") hated jazz and pushed it up the river to Chicago. "Polite Society" hated the scourge of jazz....Each of these entities did everything they could to kill/prohibit jazz. Yet jazz steamrolled the nation.
To me, Big Band music was the "pop" music of the day. We have tons of rock/pop groups today. There is more opportunity than there ever has been for independent artists to make a name for themselves via the various web-based platforms. No longer are we caged by what our "betters'" choose, nor do we have only two or three gatekeepers at which to beg admittance. Perhaps it is now more difficult to become a mega-star, but it is far easier to become a self-made (multi) millionaire.
To me, it appears that the jazz age was the American spirit, un-caged. We were told, "NO!" and we answered back, "Oh yeah?!" Look at all the music forms which later resulted!
In my opinion, nothing would stop a "jazz age" or "big band age" type of concept from happening today. Offer something new to the ear, compelling, and desirable to the 17-25 demographic, and it will take off - with or without clarinet, with or without support of society in general.
For me - the limiting factor is a false one applied by an educational structure bent on seeing clarinet (and many other instruments) as a single-purpose instrument. ;^)>>>
Fuzzy
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2021-06-24 05:37
I would say that article turned out as well as James could have hoped. If one were to read it in isolation, they'd be left with the impression that COVID was rough on musicians and he chose a different path.
In reality, Zimmermann was fired from the Nashville Symphony prior to the pandemic for racial insensitivity and a host of bad behavior related to it.
The larger points you bring up deserve attention, but it would be a disservice to all the musicians of the Nashville Symphony who aren't highlighted here to gloss over the misleading core of this article.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2021-06-24 20:33
J. J. wrote:
> I would say that article turned out as well as James could have
> hoped. If one were to read it in isolation, they'd be left with
> the impression that COVID was rough on musicians and he chose a
> different path.
>
> In reality, Zimmermann was fired from the Nashville Symphony
> prior to the pandemic for racial insensitivity and a host of
> bad behavior related to it.
>
> The larger points you bring up deserve attention, but it would
> be a disservice to all the musicians of the Nashville Symphony
> who aren't highlighted here to gloss over the misleading core
> of this article.
J.J.
I am very surprised and upset to hear this.
Would you mind sourcing your claims?
I watched this video of Mr. Zimmermann's about a dispute between the NY Philharmonics Anthony McGill, who for those who don't know is African American---I point out only because it is relevant to the story, and Norman Lebrecht.
https://youtu.be/7giKcDs-dbc
I found James incredibly sensitive and insightful to Mr. McGill's feelings, while still being able to objectively analyze what may have been Mr. Lebrecht poorly worded attempt at challenging classical musician's hobby stereotypes, rather than those of African American classical musicians specifically: both being groups of people that Mr. McGill belongs to. Truth: I don't know Mr. Lebrecht's intent.
Mr. Zimmermann went on to demonstrate steps his orchestra and others are taking about never removing the audition curtain, even in the final rounds, so as to focus entirely on a musician's play, and not things like their personal attributes.
So your comments surprise me, and I think it goes without saying that when you label someone racially insensitive, even if it may be true, that you, without express request, cite your claims.
My $0.02.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2021-06-25 06:52
> I am very surprised and upset to hear this.
>
> Would you mind sourcing your claims?
In this particular case, I would.
It definitely happened, though. There was plenty of evidence at the time strewn out on social media, including his own wording that he lost his job. There were other pieces that gave more insight on his colleagues' social media. Mind you, none of that was how I know this to be true.
It didn't take much digging at the time (I don't know now) to find a stream of tweets on his Twitter that might give some insight into what mindset could lead to such problems in the modern workplace.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2021-06-25 07:47
J. J. wrote:
>
> > I am very surprised and upset to hear this.
> >
> > Would you mind sourcing your claims?
>
> In this particular case, I would.
>
> It definitely happened, though. There was plenty of evidence at
> the time strewn out on social media, including his own wording
> that he lost his job. There were other pieces that gave more
> insight on his colleagues' social media. Mind you, none of that
> was how I know this to be true.
>
> It didn't take much digging at the time (I don't know now) to
> find a stream of tweets on his Twitter that might give some
> insight into what mindset could lead to such problems in the
> modern workplace.
Moderator:
Would you please remove J.J's comments above? My request is made based on the following arguments.
Keeping email private, I can fairly say that J.J. has refused either here on in email to comment.
J.J.:
So the comments Mr. Zimmermann made are on social media, part of the public record, and yet J.J. you won't even link them...because you'll (wait for it) reveal sources that revealed themselves?
Yeah--that makes a lot of sense--a journalist protecting his sources right? Not.
In fact at one point acquiring such information you report was easy, but now you either don't know how to get at these sources or you are unwilling to try? (Your words in parentheses are written in a way, that in fairness to me, makes it unclear which of these two, or both, is the case.)
Also keeping email private, I can fairly say that Mr. Zimmerman denies any of these claims. And as far as him not offering evidence, first off, as accused he doesn't nor should he have to. Second, it makes perfect sense to me, should he at one point wish to talk about this, that he not openly discuss whatever took place, especially in light of the potential for litigious outcome.
J.J. putting somebody down based on provided evidence is fair play. Maybe your story is true.
Then again, have you been driving without your license? I refuse to provide proof. (I doubt you have. I'm making a point.)
Sadly, in our current world, when you say things enough times, even with no evidence, people start believing it.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2021-06-25 08:32
Moderators, do you want me to provide some corroborating (public) evidence to avoid removal? I can, but it all seems unseemly. We're talking about deleted tweets and such.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2021-06-25 09:05
This just gets better.
As mentioned, Mr. Johnson refused in email to provide me with sources.
Now he's willing to provide them publicly?
Don't you think you should provide it Mr. Johnson because it's only fair, having accused someone, not simply to keep the comments on the board?
How's about to keep you on the board?
How would you feel if someone did this to you? Wouldn't you want them to provide proof?
(Conflict of interest statement: I have no connection to Mr. Zimmermann. I am not Mr. Zimmermann.)
For the record, Mr. Johnson did provide me with something in email just now: a public post from Facebook, Twitter, I don't know, documenting that Mr. Zimmermann did indeed lose his job.
Lets assume it was in fact from Mr. Zimmermann. This was in response to my request that Mr. Johnson provide me with proof that Mr. Zimmermann lost his job for racial insensitivity.
Ironically enough, Mr. Zimmermann hashtags "colorblindvisionary" in the post
There was a poem written by Mr. Zimmerman's young daughter below. I did my best to read it. It, to the best I could determine, and FWIW, had positively nothing about race in it. If somehow I missed (I didn't), he was already fired so nothing about it inspired his termination--not unless you have a time machine.
At this point Mr. Johnson I think you should provide evidence or be kicked out of here. Fortunately for you this isn't my board.
Did Mr. Zimmermann support a player after blind auditions that was the best, but also came from a privileged upbringing? I mean I have no reason to think that, but if so, Anthony McGill himself would nothing but support the best player getting the seat, all while trying to engage minorities in the arts (a wonderful thing) to become said best player.
Post Edited (2021-06-25 09:06)
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2021-06-25 09:36
There is absolutely no chance I’m going to divulge anything I learned in private about this situation. What I do have are a few screenshots that corroborate parts of the story. I just didn’t feel like looking for them or searching around online just to highlight more of the “bad side” of this story. I don’t see how that’s so egregious.
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2021-06-25 12:30
If it is true that Zimmerman was fired under such accusations, it must be demonstrable by publicly available documentation. ***An official statement by the orchestra should be provided.*** If they haven’t said anything it’s a private matter.
If he was fired under such circumstances, whether privately or publicly, the question of whether the accusations are actually true is an entirely different matter.
- Matthew Simington
Post Edited (2021-06-25 13:17)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2021-06-25 12:41
OK, this has gotten personal. Whatever the facts of the individual case, the discussion has gotten well away from the general topic of the original title, "Difficulty of this profession" and become focused on the personal behavior of a third party who isn't himself active in the exchanges.
As the junior moderator, I would ordinarily exchange an email or two with Mark about this kind of thing and then defer to him for final judgment. But it's early in the Friday AM for me and rather than risk having this get even more vitriolic before Mark even wakes up later this morning, I'm going to take it on myself to close this thread.
Karl
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2021-06-25 18:45
Thank you Karl for closing this thread.
If you have something detrimental to say about someone that is not supported by commonly available references then it's so much better to bite your tongue and shut your mouth. You aren't helping any situation by repeating "I remember that" or "someone told me". Something like this would have been big news in the musical community, and I found nothing online in a cursory search.
"extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
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