 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ken.
Date: 2021-06-07 13:28
I recently bought a Selmer Signature clarinet. Based on the serial number I estimated it to be an early 2000's model. It comes with a 62.5 mm barrel. I'm playing a Chicago Kasper 11 refaced by Brad Behn and Vandoren 2 1/2 reeds.
I just joined a concert band and noticed some tuning issues on the Selmer with the clarinet section, but when switching to my 1970 R13 it was much better.
When using a tuner the Selmer is about 10 cents flatter on average compared with the R13. I tried using different mouthpieces and reeds but got pretty much the same result.
So I am thinking of getting a shorter barrel. My question is if I want to sharpen the tuning by 10 cents how much shorter a barrel should I get. I was thinking maybe get a 61.5?
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Author: kdk
Date: 2021-06-07 17:04
You're going to have to get a barrel made for you in any case - I haven't seen aftermarket barrels that short. But, from what I can find online, the Signatures came with two barrels - 64.5mm and 62.5mm. If your clarinet is flat even with the shorter of the two that were standard, I'd be inclined to have a tech spend a little time trying to find out if there's something else in the instrument, especially a bore change, that's causing it to be so flat.
When you say the pitch with the R13 is "much better," does that mean "in tune" or "sharp" or just "less flat?"
Karl
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-06-07 18:37
62.5mm is about as short as barrels go and going any shorter will cause even more intonation problems that are already present with 62.5mm barrels.
Are you sure it's playing that flat or has the needle on your tuner gone full circle making it appear to read 10 cents flat, but is in fact just under a semitone sharp with such a short barrel?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-06-07 18:37
Yeah, that's pretty short in the panoply of clarinet barrels. But as far as what I do with a 10 cent difference would be to go down at least a couple of millimeters.......round off to 60mm. If it is a little sharp, pull out (but you can't squish smaller if it turns out to still be too long).
I wanted to include a link but it is really really long and this website makes put it ALL on one line.
Check out eBay and search "60mm clarinet barrels." What comes up first is one that looks like a Leblanc Concerto barrel, then there is a wooden ring model. Both are just under $50 US dollars. I have ordered several like this. They are from China (how you feel about that aside); the shipping time can be 3-4 months. The ones I have for my Yamaha CSGs (50mm) work great.
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: Ed
Date: 2021-06-07 19:27
Clark Fobes used to make barrels for the Signature. Perhaps you can contact him for his thoughts.
Post Edited (2021-06-07 19:27)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2021-06-07 19:41
Paul Aviles wrote:
> I wanted to include a link but it is really really long and
> this website makes put it ALL on one line.
There's tinyurl.com. It produces shorter URLs as tokens for impossibly long ones.
Karl
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2021-06-07 19:47
If you check the many videos Brad Behn has put up on his Facebook page in the last 8 to 10 months, you will see that in addition to his Buffet clarinets he is also now playing and testing mouthpieces on a Selmer Signature Clarinet. So I would assume he has found or made a barrel that works well on that model and can do the same for you.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-06-08 02:41
is this a trend for newer clarinets in general or just this model? my newest clarinet is my 1984 r13.
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Author: Ken.
Date: 2021-06-08 08:44
Quote:
When you say the pitch with the R13 is "much better," does that mean "in tune" or "sharp" or just "less flat?"
I meant it was in tune.
Quote:
Are you sure it's playing that flat or has the needle on your tuner gone full circle making it appear to read 10 cents flat, but is in fact just under a semitone sharp with such a short barrel?
I'm sure it's flat because the tuner tells you the note as well.
Quote:
Yeah, that's pretty short in the panoply of clarinet barrels. But as far as what I do with a 10 cent difference would be to go down at least a couple of millimeters.......round off to 60mm. If it is a little sharp, pull out (but you can't squish smaller if it turns out to still be too long).
Yes. I will probably talk to a couple of barrel makers and see what they say.
Quote:
See also this thread http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=486919&t=486905
Thanks. Looks like shortening an existing Signature barrel might be an option.
Quote:
Clark Fobes used to make barrels for the Signature. Perhaps you can contact him for his thoughts.
Yes, I see he still some of those, but all but a couple of longer sizes are sold out. I may contact him.
Quote:
If you check the many videos Brad Behn has put up on his Facebook page in the last 8 to 10 months, you will see that in addition to his Buffet clarinets he is also now playing and testing mouthpieces on a Selmer Signature Clarinet. So I would assume he has found or made a barrel that works well on that model and can do the same for you.
Thanks, thats good to know!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-06-08 22:26
What length is the Signature's top joint from end of tenon to end of tenon (in millimetres)?
Yamaha CSG have longer top joints than most Boehm systems and a shorter barrel as a result - the short barrel/long top joint concept has been taken from German and Oehler system clarinets.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2021-06-09 21:24
Chris P wrote:
> Yamaha CSG have longer top joints than most Boehm systems and a
> shorter barrel as a result - the short barrel/long top joint
> concept has been taken from German and Oehler system clarinets.
>
Is there an acoustical advantage to this? Or could it be a deliberate attempt to thwart the aftermarket barrel industry?
Karl
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-06-09 22:00
It sounds more of a compromise than anything in they're most likely aiming to put some German characteristics into an instrument with a French bore instead of going down the reform Boehm or full-on German/Oehler system route to give them much wider appeal as any French style mouthpiece can be used with them instead of a specific German type.
I haven't had a chance to look at a Signature in detail as the one that came in for emergency crack repair at the end of 2019 was done with the owner present who brought it to me immediately before a concert with hardly any time to spare. The one thing I did notice on it were the top joint toneholes which were mostly bushed - even the speaker tube countersink was bushed!
One thing I definitely don't like with recent Selmers is how they spring the throat G# key with the spring in the threaded pillar meaning the bias of the spring will loosen the pillar, turning it anticlockwise instead of clockwise. Why they did that is anyone's guess - they should've fitted an anchored pillar if they decided to do that.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken.
Date: 2021-10-18 11:38
Chris P wrote:
> What length is the Signature's top joint from end of tenon to end of tenon (in
> millimetres)?
>
> Yamaha CSG have longer top joints than most Boehm systems and a shorter
> barrel as a result - the short barrel/long top joint concept has been taken from > German and Oehler system clarinets.
>
I just saw this. Sorry about the late reply.
The length of the top joint including the tenons is about 222 mm.
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Author: Pereira3D
Date: 2021-10-18 19:46
Hello, as a disclaimer, I make custom aftermarket barrels. As I have a set of Selmer Signatures on hand, I have a bore taper that is well-matched to Signature clarinets and can make them in any desired length. Some of the flatter Signatures I've come across tune nicely with a 61mm barrel and have the flexibility to pull out a bit when needed, FWIW.
Ryan Pereira
Pereira 3D Clarinet Services
www.Pereira3D.com
Post Edited (2021-10-18 19:49)
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Author: NOLA Ken
Date: 2021-10-18 19:56
A friend was dealing with the same issue of his Selmer Signature playing quite flat with the 62.5mm barrel and a Vandoren M15 mouthpiece. A change to a Selmer C85 120 brought his Signature up to playing a bit sharp, which satisfied him because he wants the flexibility to tune a bit at the barrel. He's also going to experiment with a C85 115 and different strength reeds. I haven't heard the results of these experiements yet.
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Author: Ken.
Date: 2021-10-22 12:38
NOLA Ken wrote:
> A friend was dealing with the same issue of his Selmer
> Signature playing quite flat with the 62.5mm barrel and a
> Vandoren M15 mouthpiece. A change to a Selmer C85 120 brought
> his Signature up to playing a bit sharp, which satisfied him
> because he wants the flexibility to tune a bit at the barrel.
> He's also going to experiment with a C85 115 and different
> strength reeds. I haven't heard the results of these
> experiements yet.
I also just found that changing to a Chicago Kasper 14 mouthpiece brought the Signature back in tune. I'm not sure what happened as when I tried it a few months ago before posting this thread it didn't make any difference.
I'm still planning on getting a shorter barrel though, probably a 61 mm just in case.
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