 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ClarinetBoy
Date: 2001-07-15 06:49
Has anyone here played the bass clarinet part of Tod und Verklarung (Death and Transfiguration)? I am not really a bass-clarinettist but I have to play it and am having trouble playing the part, which is written in Bass Clef. Do professional Bass Clarinet players rewrite their parts in treble-clef or practise lots in bass clef?
The edition that I am referring to is a 'Peters Edition' , are other editions in bass clef as well?
thanks
Ben
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Author: graham
Date: 2001-07-15 10:10
A large number of mainstream works have bass clarinet parts in bass clef. It is very worthwhile learning to be fluent in bass clef if you want to do orchestral bass clarinet. Beware bass clef parts pitched in A!! Rachmaninov 2nd for example.
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Author: Phil
Date: 2001-07-15 17:22
are you shure they are in A, or for Strauss, I'm pretty shure that the part is written in German notation, In Bass Claf and in C, not A.....
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2001-07-15 18:16
Many many different versions of diffenernt orchestral classics out there. Les Toreadors from the Carmen Suite is originally in A, I believe, but I have seen it in G and D (very odd sounding).
As for bass clarinet transposition, it helps for EVERYONE to be able to transpose readily to concert pitch. French Horns often have to play things in completely off keys, something written in C and played in Bb, for example, so they have to read it as if it were in... I think it's F. It's been too long since I last talked to a French Horn about transposition. I personally think everyone in an orchestra should learn how to read all clefs, even piccolos and contrabassoons. It helps with cues and if you see something in a different clef you can be more prepared.
(I have yet to learn alto and tenor clef fluently. I hope no bass clarinet music pops up in that!! I guess we're all in the same boat, huh?)
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Author: Jerry McD.
Date: 2001-07-15 23:56
You will find orchestral bass clarinet parts in all types of configurations. Graham is right in saying that it is imperative that you are fluent in bass cleff. Now, Death and Transfiguration makes it even more interesting as it jumps between clefs, it just makes you want to go AAAAARGH! I have seen Rach. 2nd in A as well as some Tchaikovsky....in bass cleff. yuk. Anyway, as far as transposing goes, good french horn players are savants when it comes to transposing on the fly, C to F? Bass clarinet in Strauss is always fun because it generally follows the cellos and basses, not the higher woodwinds, it is kind of fun to redirect your attention toward the lower strings.
Good playing!
Jerry McD.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-07-16 14:23
You really do need to become fluent in reading bass clef to play orchestral bass clarinet --- many parts are written that way. As for T & V, as I recall, there are only two notes (!) of bass clarinet that are prominent, so you might as well learn to read it off the page. Now granted, some parts are ridiculous and very hard to read directly -- in particular I recall Ravel's La Valse, which I seem to remember had lots of notes and was written in bass clef for bass clarinet in "A" --- in that piece I bit the bullet and transposed the entire part back to treble clef for Bb instrument. It was a LOT of work.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-07-17 21:31
The Bach Cello Suites are great for boning up on bass clef. Alot of fun to play too.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-01-14 18:28
Is there anything I need to be aware/worried of in 'Tod und Verklaerung'?
I just got a call to play bass in this, and reading German bass clarinet notation (low notes in bass clef) isn't a problem. I haven't got the dots yet (I'll get them early next week) and the concert isn't until 9th Feb, so I should have plenty of time to get any tricky bits nailed.
Now I'm off to do some listening (and just dug out my copy - I trust Berlin Phil/Karajan deliver the goods)!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2008-01-14 21:02
not for nothin, Dave, but Kalmus now sells a version of the of La Valse orch. part for bass clarinet transposed to Bb.
May I just say that learning to sight-transpose "A" bass clarinet parts on a Bb instrument is, for me, hideously difficult. One persists, however!!
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Author: nahoj
Date: 2008-01-14 21:33
***
David Pegel wrote:
I personally think everyone in an orchestra should learn how to read all clefs, even piccolos and contrabassoons. It helps with cues and if you see something in a different clef you can be more prepared.
***
I personally think all those different clefs should be abandoned. All music can be written in one clef. Just transpose some octaves when required for the pitch of your instrument. I really fail to see the point of all those different clefs but if I miss something here, please enlighten me.
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2008-01-14 23:05
DougR wrote:
"not for nothin, Dave, but Kalmus now sells a version of the of La Valse orch. part for bass transposed to Bb."
Caveat emptor! When I ordered this "transposed" part from Kalmus a couple of years ago, I discovered that it wasn't transposed at all -- and they had the gall not to refund the shipping costs that I paid both directions. I don't know if Kalmus has fixed the problem or did Doug talk to the same stupid person at Kalmus who assured me that the part was all in Bb!
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Author: DougR
Date: 2008-01-14 23:48
Hi Larry--
Sounds like Kalmus screwed up. I have the part in front of me, and it's the Clinton Nieweg edition and it's all in Bb, so it does exist. Kalmus's response to your complaint sounds very odd indeed.
To the poster's original point, in MY experience, professional bass clarinetists and sometimes orchestras rewrite parts when needed (I have a smudgy old transposed version of La Valse with the Pittsburgh Symphony library stamp on it) and I absolutely recommend collecting transposed parts whenever they crop up.
I completely agree that it's much more professional to transpose, but I admit I have a transposed version of the Mahler 4th that I schlepp when I have to go play the thing, and I'd use the transposed part for La Valse if I were playing it, too.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-01-15 12:27
Aah, but it' Richard Strauss, which makes it worthwhile.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2008-01-15 16:25
"I just got a call to play bass in this, and reading German bass clarinet notation (low notes in bass clef) isn't a problem.
Normally the term "German notation" not only means low notes in bass clef but also treble clef one octave higher than we're used to read it.
Wagner writes like this without exceptions and I think Strauss as well if the editor hasn't changed anything from the original. If the music is scored for bass clarinet in A you also have to get used to transposing while switching between clefs playing treble clef one octave higher.
Alphie
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-01-15 16:33
Strange what with Paul Dukas being French and all that, he used German bass clarinet notation in 'Scorcer's Apprentice', and the treble clef bits went way up in the stratosphere (playing the treble clef bits an 8ve higher than written).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: graham
Date: 2008-01-16 07:21
I am pretty sure Tod has the treble clef passages as well
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