 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-08-29 21:10
For some time I've been on the lookout for a decent Albert Bb. A few weeks ago I saw a Pustophon 5-ring Albert on that auction site. A friend had a Pustophon Boehm Bb years ago and I was very impressed with the quality of the instrument and the way that it played. With this in mind I bid on it and to my surprise was the only bidder. Today it arrived here in Oz, only slightly out of breath after its long hike from Switzerland. I certainly wasn't disappointed; the build quality is superb, the intonation is better than most modern boehm clarinets and it sounds great, with surprising volume. The key ergonomics are far better suited to my hands than the "no-name" 4-ring Albert I've been playing. All in all a good day.
Tony F.
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2016-08-29 21:29
Good for you!
For all its problems and limitations, I am very glad to have "that auction site" around. The alternatives of the past (and still available) pale by comparison to the opportunities. I've learned a hard lesson or 2, but I still take some chances- otherwise I'd miss out on a lot of good transactions. No complaint in the long run.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2016-08-29 21:31
I read a listing on That Auction Site recently for a full-Boehm Pustophon that provided some information about the makers - evidently it was a collaboration between PUchner and STOwasser and they made high-quality instruments.
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2016-08-30 18:46
Attachment: Pust.jpg (273k)
Attachment: Kreul_2.jpg (263k)
Congratulations, Tony. Püchner and Stowasser were master craftsmen from widespread Bohemian- German instrument- making families (one Stowasser worked in Budapest and was engaged in re- inventing the Tarogato, one Püchner, a cousin of the beforementioned, after the war founded the Nauheim workshop renowned to this day especially for their bassoons). After being expelled from Tchechoslovakia after the war, P. and S. in the 1950ies worked for Hans Kreul in Tübingen (as a student I bought one or two istruments there and might have encountered them). The trade name "Püstophon" was used during that time. In German it sounds always a bit amusing, as, in dialect, "pusten" is "blowing", a "Püster" might mean a short gust of wind. Maybe the two Bohemians themselves had that sort of humour.
I acquired a Püstophon Bb, German system, 5 rings, some years ago for little money at the ...auction site, partly out of Tübingen- nostalgia. It proved indeed as a solid, well playing instrument. I attach a photo and a page from a Hans Kreul catalog, some years younger. As i don't have the original with me, I can't confirm that these instruments are still marked "Püstophon" or "Hans Kreul" only.
I'm sure, however, that these were "German" resp. "Oehler" instruments, not "Albert"- the latter designation, to my knowledge, wasn't used in Germany at all-, whatever the difference may be (I faintly remember a discussion on this topic here).
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-09-01 20:10
Hi Michael,
The instrument that I bought is pretty well identical with the one you show. I realize that these are referred to as German system. Actually I'm not sure what the difference is between Albert, Simple and basic Oehler systems. This one is sufficiently similar the the Selmer Albert (or Simple) system instrument that I learned to play 60 years ago that there was only a very short accommodation period. After about an hour the old muscle memory re-established itself and I was able to play it with reasonable fluency. To what extent are the terms Albert, Simple, German and Oehler related?
Tony F.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-09-01 21:16
Albert and simple systems are essentially the same thing - French style bore (which starts to flare out above F#/C# tonehole) with simple system keywork from the most basic (starting with 12 keys and 2 rings) to adding extra rings (from 2 to 6 rings), Barret side key, LH Ab/Eb or Bb/F key, etc.
German systems have simple system style keywork but usually with extra ring keys with small vent pad cups soldered to them, but they have a German bore which is cylindrical to just above the lower joint tenon (just below the F/C tonehole) where it then flares out. The amount of cross keys and other linkages varies depending on how much you're prepared to spend - usually from 17 keys to 23 keys with from 4 to 6 rings.
Oehler systems have a fingerplate (Griffplatte) for RH finger 2 which has no tonehole immediately below it, but instead it closes the two side vent keys to give a better forked Bb/F in the right hand. So they have 5 rings and from 24 to 28 keys depending if the low E (with closed standing bell vent key only) or low E/F correction key/mechanism is fitted to raise the pitch of the low E or an automatic one for both low E and F (the low F vent closes when E is played) which is operated by the right thumb. They're often classed in catalogues as 'Theatre model' or 'Orchestra model' which is the pro level instrument and the 'Soloist model' is the prestige level.
In any case, the keywork on these has evolved over time from the Classical era 5 key clarinet as opposed to the 'Boehm system' where the mechanism is a complete redesign which should really be called the Klose-Buffet system.
Like oboes, the keywork configuration isn't completely standardised and each maker will offer their own specs.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2016-09-01 22:22
Attachment: Albert.jpg (123k)
Chris P: You were faster and more in-depth. I hope it is ok anyhow if I show here the text I've just written, and attach a picture:
Hi Tony: I'm not very good in advanced clarinet nomenclature or philosophy (nor in English), so I try to answer as best I can:
"German" systems are successors of the 1820ties Iwan Müller 13 key instrument (from which in the 1830ties branched the Klose-(Boehm)- system) via the so called Baermann system, with four to six rings. "Albert", also called Simple system, was essentially an early, simplified German system, typically with up to four rings, a "wrap around" speaker key, and sometimes "three in a row" RH keys (don't know what for).In this configuration it was used by traditional jazz players (e.g.Woody Allen) for its aptness for slurring. It is also said that Alberts have bores different from German system. Alberts were made by the Belgian Albert, then by French firms.
"Oehler" is a refined German system with a fingerplate for right middle finger and more complicated Bb- Mechanism. "Full Oehler", not originally made by Arthur Oehler himself, has an additional E improvement key on the bell and F improvement mechanism (hope I got it right). This has been standard in Central Europe for almost a century. The Vienna system is German with some modifications. See also attached picture (from http://www.die-klarinetten.de/content/deutsch/deutsch-vs-boehm.html ). Michael
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-09-02 03:57
Chris and Michael,
Thank you so much. This has clarified, and corrected, my ideas about the relationship. The Albert/simple is rare here in Oz, and the Oehler is almost unknown. I know of only one Oehler player, an elderly Dutch farmer who brought his clarinet with him when he came from Holland 70 years ago. He does his own repadding using discs punched from a leather belt and I have to say he does a pretty decent job.
Tony F.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-11-15 20:42
Following on from my original post concerning a Pustophon Albert/Oehler clarinet, I was so greatly impressed with the overall quality of the instrument that I bought that when I saw a Pustophon Boehm clarinet on EBay I bought it from a seller in Hawaii.
It was in need of a lot of TLC when it arrived, the pads were shot, the joint corks were all loose and it was in pretty cruddy condition. It went into my "To do" box and worked its way to the top last week.
After cleaning, repadding and corking I gave it a workout at various band practices during the last week, and I have to say that it may well be the best clarinet I have ever played. The build quality is very good indeed, the tuning is the best I've ever measured and it sounds gorgeous, dark and woody. Definitely a keeper and will probably become my everyday instrument. All this and it cost me $70.
Tony F.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-05-13 06:01
i have one in my closet -been there 20 years or more. needs total re build . time to make it my next project as it seems its a decent instrument according to this thread. i picked it up at a flea market for like 10 $ or so
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-05-14 00:22
well i sent it off for overhaul this afternoon. will give a report on its return
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2021-05-14 13:34
I don't think you'll be disappointed. I'm still playing my Boehm as my main instrument and I've yet to find anything that I like as much. Carpal tunnel syndrome led me to playing a Noblet plateau clarinet for a while, but I've had it fixed and my hand has come back to life again, so I'm back to the Pustophon again.
Tony F.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-05-14 16:21
if i hadnt seen this thread-i would have just left it in the closet as i had no idea what it was and at the time i got it -couldnt find any info on internet 20 years ago.glad your carp is better and can play bohem again. i have a normandy plat that my daughter used all tru school but senior year broke the bottom tenon off. shame -was a good horn . i am working on a way to repair it.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-05-24 21:05
the pustophon is back from overhaul and i am super impressed. much better horn than i expected. i was expecting intermediate quality but this is professional in all aspects except keywork quality isnt quite there. it really an impressive clarinet. tone-tunning are top notch. to bad more of these didnt find their way into hands of people who have heard of them and can appreciate quality in an unknown maker.now i am sorry i let this sit in the closet for 25 years -lol
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2021-05-25 04:28
It's always good to have your own impressions confirmed. I love mine. Enjoy.
Tony F.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-05-25 05:03
thank you tony -with out your input i may have just let it sit in the closet
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Author: tyleman
Date: 2021-06-03 17:54
One just sold on ebay last week. I thought about buying it but I've got too many clarinets and several I'm completely happy with.
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Author: Bill_D
Date: 2021-06-03 19:15
I purchased it from eBay. I didn't intend to, but my low offer was immediately accepted. I figured, worst case, I could use it to learn how to pad a clarinet.
I didn't expect much since it had been stored for 30 plus years. The pads are old, but seal. Keys are tarnished, and polishing with Sunshine polishing cloth has no effect. One of the crow's foot key springs was detached.
To my surprise it plays spectacularly. It's too good for me to practice re-padding.
It came with two mouthpieces. Neither have any markings. Appear to have wide tip openings, and a long facing. One shows wear from playing, and the other appears like new.
Post Edited (2021-06-04 00:23)
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-06-03 23:47
yes its quite a shock how good these unkown clarinets play isnt it. ? i wonder what years and how many were made in total. its blind luck i stumbled onto mine . i dont go quite as far as saying its better than my buffet or leblanc or selmers but is darn near the equal . i saw the one on ebay and it looked very good shape. glad some one who appreciates quality snagged it . enjoy it!
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Author: tyleman
Date: 2021-06-11 16:41
Bill D. - congrats on your purchase, and thanks for the info on the instrument. I probably would've gone for it but I recently acquired an extremely nice Martel which I'm delighted with. Cheers!
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