 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: jonok
Date: 2021-05-24 06:58
Hi,
not really a clarinet question, but as the music in question is a clarinet piece played by Peter Cigleris ... and this board has a wealth of musical knowledge ...
can anyone tell me what is going on musically in this piece .. it just sounds wrong to me, and I don't know why, apart from some of the notes ALMOST sounding like the clarint part is in the wrong key.
https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/SIG%20656
Track 11.
FYI, I have a very classical ear ... I usually HATE modern(ish) music ... and definitely won't go to a concert that has the dreaded words "World Premier" on the program.
That being said, I do like the other "World Premier" recordings on this album - I'm going to buy it, though I'm not sure I'll listen to the Wishart more than once.
thanks
Jonathan.
-------------------
aspiring fanatic
Post Edited (2021-05-24 09:02)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: nellsonic
Date: 2021-05-24 08:19
Yep, sounds like some intentional bitonality or bimodality going on there. Peter frequents this board sometimes. If you edit this post to put his name in the title you'll likely get a response from him. He's pretty easy to find on Facebook as well.
Anders
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jonok
Date: 2021-05-24 09:03
Thanks Andrers ... updated topic.
I value my santity too much to be a facebook user.
Jonathan.
-------------------
aspiring fanatic
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Liquorice
Date: 2021-05-24 09:39
Either it's bitonal, or Peter accidentally picked up the wrong clarinet :-)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jonok
Date: 2021-05-24 11:14
Does anyone actually enjoy listening to music like this? I can't imagine it...
-------------------
aspiring fanatic
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-05-24 12:16
It's far more diatonic and accessible than a lot of modern 'squeaky gate' music - I can't even hear what the problem is.
Reminds me of Françaix.
Maybe you should open your mind (and ears) a bit more and step away from Mozart for once in your life.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2021-05-24 13:02
"Does anyone actually enjoy listening to music like this? I can't imagine it..."
"I have a very classical ear ... I usually HATE modern(ish) music ."
and
"aspiring fanatic"
I think you're justified in removing the word "aspiring" now. (offered as a good-natured rib) ;^)>>>
I didn't hear anything offensive to the music at all. In fact, I found it very pleasing/interesting. If you've ever watched 1940s-1960s mystery, crime, or thriller movies/TV, you'll have probably heard much harsher tonalities.
One of the great things about music is that it can be used in so many different contexts. Another great thing about music, is we get to pick and choose what speaks to us as individuals.
I appreciate you sharing the link. One of the great things about this bboard is the chance to be exposed to sounds/ideas we might have otherwise missed.
Thanks!
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ebonite
Date: 2021-05-24 15:57
Yes. At the point where the clarinet enters, I think the accompaniment is in C while the solo melody is in concert E.
Sounds good to me at least...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2021-05-24 17:03
In their time, audiences said the same about Beethoven and Stravinsky, and others. But maybe Stravinsky is too modern for you too?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Liquorice
Date: 2021-05-24 21:47
Thanks brycon! I had never heard of Hans Groiner but now I am now a huge fan :-)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: brycon
Date: 2021-05-25 02:07
Glad you liked it!
If you'd like to learn some more from Hans, check out this masterclass video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFLp5JmCsek
(In case you didn't recognize him, Hans is the brilliant jazz pianist and organist Larry Goldings. But Hans is such a hit that Larry occasionally performs concerts as Hans.)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: smokindok
Date: 2021-05-25 04:01
That track 11 is a lovely little waltz! Terrific playing by Peter Cigleris.
And the "Hans Groiner" video is so perfect, LOL.
Thanks for the links, gentlemen.
John
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2021-05-25 15:53
Liquorice you got me :-)
Hi Jonathan,
Glad you like the disc. Regarding the Waltz movement of the Wishart, it’s intentional bi-tonality. Orchestra in C major while the clarinet and other winds in the orchestra are in concert E major for the first section. I have to admit when first hearing, as I was setting it all into Sibelius that I was wrong but that is what the manuscript says. You’ll notice however that both orchestra and soloist finally agree on C major when the two themes are combined on the reprise. I think this is movement is influenced by Peter’s time in Paris, directly after the war, with Nadia Boulanger and the buskers on accordions and such like that might have been a little out of tune on the street corner.
The work is early English Modernism and draws on a variety of styles from Stravinsky, Finzi, Francaix etc. The Serenata Concertante is a great edition to the repertoire.
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2021-05-25 20:38
I took the Wishart Waltz to be a joke - a sort of parody of a Strauss waltz - fun to
listen to, at least once.
It's interesting about musical taste. My parents couldn't abide by the stuff I listened to as a kid in the 50's and early 60's - I'm 78 now. I can still listen to doo-wop music with pleasure but rap, hip-hop, and the whiny ballads of today totally turn me off. I don't know if the Paris 'riot' over Rite of Spring was due to the music or the dancing/costumes (or both) but ours ears, or more accurately, our brain gets set in its ways. Think of the movies you enjoyed as a kid and would watch again - your grandkids most likely are totally turned off. And how many Marvel or DC Comics movies can you stomach now if your hair is gray.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
