 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Slp36360
Date: 2021-05-19 07:50
I have been playing my standard Bf lat clarinet for about 2 years but I have reached a stopping point because of my slightly arthritic 65 year old fingers. Sometimes I just cannot make them all reach the right places.
My question is does a Eflat clarinet has the same spacing as the Bflat, are the keys closer together. Or should I just look for a plateau clarinet.
Thanks
slp60@me.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-05-19 16:32
Eb clarinets being considerably smaller instruments have much closer finger spacing compared to Bb clarinets, but the 'sliver keys' are also squeezed in between the main action toneholes as well as the throat A key being in close proximity to LH finger 1 which could also cause problems if you keep accidentally catching them.
If I were you I'd keep looking for a plateaux clarinet - new or used. Uebel currently offer them in both grenadilla with silver plated keys or mopane with gold plated keys:
https://uebel-klarinetten.de/en/clarinets/french-system/b-klarinette-superior-plateau/
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris_C ★2017
Date: 2021-05-19 17:14
When she was having trouble with her fingers my wife bought a Vito 7214P plateau. I have occasionally played it outdoors in cold weather (so numb fingers can still work it). Finding a mouthpiece to match was tricky, and it still sounds stuffy compared to her Buffet RC and my Selmer 9. It must be an option for you, though - just make sure you play it before committing!
In general, I'm surprised there isn't a wider choice - all-plateau works for soprano sax, so it must be acoustically possible to get a decent sound, and I'd have thought there was a reasonable market, comprisiong those of us of advancing years plus youngsters with small fingers.
Chris
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-05-19 17:29
my normandy plateau sounds execellent and you cant tell if you close your eyes its a plateau. not mpc picky either. look for one of these . ebonite or wood .
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2021-05-19 19:09
My Noblet plateau sounds good and I've been using it as my main instrument for about a year while I recover slowly from hand surgery. When I first got it I wondered how long it would take me to get used to the plateau fingering, but in the event it was not an issue. The conversion took about 3 minutes. The only limitation I've found is playing the glissando in Rhapsody in Blue. Easy on a conventional Boehm, very tricky on a plateau.
Tony F.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2021-05-19 19:32
In case it was inadvertently implied that a plateau clarinet is more stuffy than a regular clarinet, consider that a regular clarinet usually has about 17 padded keys and only 7 open tone holes, so most of it is already a plateau.
I would recommend against an Eb clarinet, though it depends. It's shriller and less fun as a "regular" instrument. I did start on an Eb clarinet but it's because I was too small for a Bb back then. I doubt the problem is that your fingers are too thin and/or short. The Eb being more "crowded" might be more difficult in a way.
Post Edited (2021-05-19 19:35)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2021-05-19 19:42
Slp36360 wrote:
> My question is does a Eflat clarinet has the same spacing as
> the Bflat, are the keys closer together. Or should I just look
> for a plateau clarinet.
As I understand it, plateau keys can be fitted to a standard clarinet, leaving open the possibility of installing plateau covers into the rings you're having trouble covering and leaving the rest open. I've never seen a clarinet that has been altered this way, and I'm not sure how the LH index finger ring is handled, since the ring goes down with the thumb, which would make ![[E4]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/e4.gif) impossible without some kind of modification. But it might be worth investigating instead of buying a whole new plateau-keyed clarinet.
The problem with Eb clarinets for your purpose is that they aren't simply smaller versions of a Bb clarinet. Yes, the finger spacing is closer (too close for comfort for some of us).They tend in my experience to be more resistant (I assume because the bore is more narrow and the reed and mouthpiece facing are shorter) and intonation, especially in the altissimo range, is quite variable from instrument to instrument. They are in many ways just different creatures. So, you may trade other complaints for the closer holes. If part of your goal as a clarinetist is to play in groups, depending on the instrumentation of the group you may find that there aren't parts available, so you or someone else will have to transpose them from other existing parts.
Karl
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-05-19 21:22
If your Vito plateaux model is stuffy sounding in comparison to a regular ring key clarinet, then it's most likely due to poor venting, especially in the lower register.
Have ALL the RH main action ventings increased to a maximum of 3mm (the LH ventings will follow suit) and that will clear things up and if the original skin pads are sagging, then have them all replaced with either cork or synthetic pads that remain flat and don't sag into the toneholes.
Another important thing if the regular fingering for bottom space F# (F#4) is stuffy (LH1 only), then have the thumbplate underlever shortened and that will allow it to open far more in relation to the open G vent (the small pad cup underneath the throat A touchpiece) and that will clear up the stuffy F#.
Remember it's F# that issues from the thumb tube and not open G.
Don't skimp on the cost or quality of having this sort of work done even though "it's just a plastic clarinet".
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris_C ★2017
Date: 2021-05-19 21:35
Chris_P: thanks for the advice... I'll follow up.
Chris
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-05-19 21:47
Soprano saxes and all saxes in general are very different instruments to clarinets - they're essentially large bore oboes as they behave in exactly the same way. The only similarity to clarinets is they use single reed mouthpiece and nothing more in common than that. They also have very short and wide diameter toneholes in relation to the bore diameter as well as the ventings being far more open than on clarinets will mean they'll speak far more cleanly.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Leonard Alterman
Date: 2021-05-19 23:16
I have a Leblanc Normandy Bb plateau clarinet and it plays and sounds great. They come in either a resonite or wood model. You can also try Rheuben Allen. He makes new plateau clarinets.
https://rheubenallen.com/
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Author: r small
Date: 2021-05-20 00:04
Years ago you could get a plateau model for the Leblanc LL. High quality wooden pro model. But we all know what happened to Leblanc and their extensive line of clarinets. Sigh.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-05-20 03:14
an LL plateau would be awesume. i saw a pic of it from a 60,s leblanc catalog
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2021-05-20 10:14
>> impossible without some kind of modification. But it might be worth investigating instead of buying a whole new plateau-keyed clarinet. <<
The E you showed wouldn't really be a problem, since both first finger and thumb rings are closed for that anyway. F would be a problem with the regular mechanism. It will need quite a lot of modifications. Not just the hinges to allow fingerings, but the chimneys will (preferably) need to be milled down to regular tone hole shapes, otherwise the keys will need to be extremely high above them, very uncomfortable.
Going that route might cost more than a basic Leblanc (Vito/Normandy/etc.) plateau, though it's possible to see what keys need to be "plateaued" and only modify those.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2021-05-20 12:06
clarnibass wrote:
> The E you showed wouldn't really be a problem, since both first
> finger and thumb rings are closed for that anyway. F would be a
> problem with the regular mechanism. .
>
> Going that route might cost more than a basic Leblanc
> (Vito/Normandy/etc.) plateau, though it's possible to see what
> keys need to be "plateaued" and only modify those.
Yes, that's what I meant. But the point is that some modification of the LH thumb-index finger combination would be needed. The problem is that, for anyone having arthritic problems with coverage or finger span, the stretch between the LH index and ring fingers may be a primary issue, and there's no ring on the C4/G5 tone hole to solve the problem from that direction. I've never actually had a plateau-keyed clarinet in my hands to examine. How do the ones that are designed that way handle the left hand?
Karl
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-05-20 12:42
With all plateaux clarinets, all the fingerholes are covered by fingerplates and those fingerplates are in turn linked to the vent keys they control.
The LH thumbplate will close the open G vent to give F natural, but won't close the LH1 fingerplate.
The LH1 fingerplate will close the vent pad cup via an adjusting screw linkage to give F# (with the thumb off) or E (with the thumb on), just like that seen on alto and bass clarinets.
The LH2 fingerplate will close the E/B vent pad cup via a linkage to give D/A, but will remain open when long Bb (xxo|xxo) is played.
The LH3 fingerplate is normally completely independent to the rest of the mechanism.
The RH1 fingerplate will close the C/G vent via a linkage (like that on sax RH main actions) to give Bb/F, but won't lower any of the other RH fingerplates.
The RH2 fingerplate will also close the C/G vent to give B/F# and A/E when RH1 is held down.
The RH3 fingerplate can either be linked to the C/G vent just like the RH main action on saxes which will mean a longer back bar to link it which will need to be bridged for reliability, or can be left independent as it is on Vitos with a much simpler linkage in the form of a bar bent into an L-shape
All the fingerplates will need their own springs and key feet and the existing tonehole chimneys will need to be profiled to give them crowns like all other countersunk toneholes to seat pads onto, either maintaining their height to preserve the existing tuning and characteristics of the instrument or shortening them and doing tuning work as shortening them will sharpen the notes that issue form them.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2021-05-20 20:14
Attachment: IMG_0140.JPG (1409k)
Attachment: IMG_0141.JPG (1395k)
You may not need plateau keys for every tone hole that normally has rings. I've made some plateau keys but it is very time consuming. I've also closed off the top of some tone holes where the finger was not covering. I'll try to attch some photos of a Bundy that was made for "smaller fingers".
Steve Ocone
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Author: donald
Date: 2021-05-21 11:23
I have a 70s/80s plateau at home somewhere, I think it has a cracked centre joint.... I swap it for a few boxes of reeds....
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Author: donald
Date: 2021-05-23 13:28
To be more precise, the middle TENON has broken, otherwise in fine mechanical condition (needs re-padding). I'll pull it out to check the brand etc. I bought it meaning to get my friend to repair it, but he never has the time and I never have the $$$$$
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-05-23 17:09
i have a second normandy ebonite plateau with the b and c# key broken off. the lower joint hope to repair it some day. i should look on ebay for a lower joint junker
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