 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2021-05-10 04:37
Hi All,
I've always had good luck with Luyben and Giglioti ligatures in Bb Clarinet. Cheap, excellent results, easy to use... Now, I'd like to find a similar plastic ligature for my bass. So far, no luck.
Does anyone know of such a ligature? I see there is an Eddie Daniels Carbon Fiber ligature but any reviews of that ligature are essentially non-existent.
HRL
PS On bass, I currently use a VD Optimum and a Rovner SS-3RL (this is a surprisingly fine ligature for very little money).
Post Edited (2021-05-10 04:56)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-05-10 05:56
I would be on the lookout for one as well.
In the meantime, the idea of carbon fiber material seems like it may be close.
Here is a review from YouTube, "Unboxing Eddie Daniels Ligatures Live"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOAgqP6a9ME
33:54 - she plays the "gold" bass clarinet ligature
37:48 - she plays the carbon fiber bass clarinet ligature
Lots of commercials but if you start at the beginning you get a good view of how the ligatures look interacting with the reed and the commentary is interesting. The recorded sound quality is not helpful.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-05-12 01:55
Hold the presses!
There is another possible option. I forgot about the Pereira 3D (3D printed ligatures). These are standard polymer material and probably closest to the Luyben. The bass version will probably be $37.00 with tax and shipping.
I have tried looking for a very light material as on option to plastic and had a profoundly negative experience with titanium (light but very brittle). Perhaps the lack of any flexibility in the material was the issue. If so, maybe the carbon fibre might not be such a great idea (for plastic reeds that is).
I will have a Bb version of the Pereira 3D in short order and let you know shortly.
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2021-05-12 08:04
>> had a profoundly negative experience with titanium (light but very brittle) <<
Must be specific to whatever it was, because in general titanium isn't brittle.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-05-12 21:34
Dear "clarnibass,"
That's exactly what I thought when I went to bend mine. It literally cracked apart like a wafer cone! I don't suppose then that the Playnik Titanium is made of actual titanium. Also not refundable in thirty pieces.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: tdufka
Date: 2021-05-13 00:41
Hank, please let us know of your experiences with this ligature!
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-05-14 22:00
I just got the standard Pereira 3D ligature for Bb clarinet and find that is quite good cinched down firmly. Unlike just about every other ligature (with the possible exception of the Luyben) that performs best left as loose as you can manage while not having the reed just fall to the floor, this one comes alive when it is quite firmly attached.
The material was not what I expected. If you are familiar with kids shoes called "Jellies," the material is more like that (soft and quite pliable).
Much like the Luyben, the placement is critical. For me the ligature is best just a hair under the line of ligature. If more than a millimeter under that line, or on the line, or above the line of ligature, the reed seems to want to "collapse," get mushy. This happens with the Pereira as well.
The only misgivings I might have are as follows:
The pouch of this ligature is rather long. So you can't adjust the butt of the reed once the ligature is fully on because the bottom of the reed is fully covered (much like what happens with the BG Duo).
Also, I do cinch down quite a bit and the grommet in the material almost looks as if it may give it in short order. This may not be the case, and I hope not because I actually like this ligature and look forward to putting through its paces.
As always.........the evaluation was conducted with only Legere European Signature cut reeds.
....................Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2021-05-14 22:15)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2021-05-15 00:58
Paul,
Interesting points.
I should have my Bass Clarinet ligature Tuesday. I'll report back.
Hank
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Author: graham
Date: 2021-05-15 20:38
Does anyone know why Luyben haven’t manufactured a bass sized ligature?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-05-15 22:02
They are and have always been a small company whose emphasis has been printed music. My guess is that they were just interested in the higher percentage of Bb clarinet students and didn't need to branch out from there.
We are in a newer era with the advent of professional grade plastic reeds. It just happens to be the case that the plastic ligatures are ideal for the performance of plastic reeds. I think it won't be long before all major ligature producers have at least one form of plastic ligature available. But until then........just good news for Luyben. Maybe they might think about expanding their line?
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2021-05-20 18:15
Hi All,
I got my 3D Pereira ligature for bass earlier this week. Shipping was fast and the PR was excellent. It's pretty cool to be dealing directly with the designer/manufacturer.
The "unboxing" or should I say "un-bagging" was easy. The ligature with cap came in a neat little bag which is a keeper in and of its self. As I knew from the website, it would take a few days for the material (a very nice and flexible plastic) to take its final shape. I had the same procedure when I got my first Luyben ligature about 50 years ago (still have it and play it) so this was nothing new.
My first testing occurred at the end of a clarinet quartet rehearsal when I slipped it on my Selmer D bass mouthpiece with a Legere' Classic reed. It was amazing from the first three octave scale. The response was precise and the tonal quality exactly what I desire.
I'm in the process of woodshedding for the next couple of days but already, I can see that I will likely use my 3D Pereira for an extended period of time. However, one thing I will not do is say "this has a darker tone than the..." or "My xx ligature is better at..." I find this counter-productive. The ligature is what it is, you like it or don't like it.
Two interesting comments from my wife (not a musician but one who has picked up a lot of knowledge from my equipment trials and tribulations) were "very nice hardware" and "how is the plastic in cold weather." She does cut to the chase!
More later,
Hank
PS Check Ryan's playing on his website https://www.ryanpereiraclarinet.com
Post Edited (2021-05-21 16:34)
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Author: Pereira3D
Date: 2021-05-20 18:52
Thank you, Paul and Hank, for sharing your experiences with my ligatures! I appreciate the feedback as I'm always trying to listen to customer feedback and make improvements where necessary. I also did indeed test these ligatures with both cane and Legere reeds on soprano and bass clarinets while designing them to ensure they functioned well with both options.
Paul, as for the material, polyurethane is pretty tough stuff. It's by far the strongest 3D filament I have. Its flexible nature also contributes to this. I've torture-tested these ligatures during R&D, including leaving one assembled on an unused reed/mouthpiece for months and tugging on the material with pliers in various spots over the weeks. The ligature shouldn't "give out" at the grommets, but even in the event that it does, I'd happily replace it. I hope you enjoy it!
Ryan Pereira
Pereira 3D Clarinet Services
www.Pereira3D.com
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Author: graham
Date: 2021-05-21 15:25
Hi Ryan. Do you have a distributor for this in the UK? Thanks
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Author: Pereira3D
Date: 2021-05-21 19:27
Hi, Graham. I don't right now, unfortunately, but I do ship to the UK via USPS First Class International (it's a shipping option on my site). That would run $17 USD.
Ryan Pereira
Pereira 3D Clarinet Services
www.Pereira3D.com
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2021-05-21 23:45
Would there be any advantage to using one of these over an ordinary Rovner Dark? I have tried quite a lot of ligatures and always end up coming back to my very cheap Rovner Dark.
https://www.rovnerproducts.com/dark-ligature
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Author: BethGraham
Date: 2021-05-22 00:44
Do you mean using it on a Bb clarinet, Jen? I prefer my new Luyben over the Rovner Dark I'd been using for the past year or more. It feels brighter ("pingy-er"?) to me.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2021-05-22 03:05
I have not tried the Periera ligature. Regarding the Luyben, I agree that it has more ring and focus than a Rovner. I always thought the Rovners tended to dampen the reed and the response. The Luyben has a very nice balance of overtones and resonance.
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Author: Pereira3D
Date: 2021-05-22 04:01
I actually designed my ligatures as a bit of a variation of the fabric style of ligatures, but the polyurethane material changed the playing experience enough to make them unique. Polyurethane doesn't dampen the sound as much as fabric, yet it's warmer in sound compared to metal - a nice middle ground.
Ryan Pereira
Pereira 3D Clarinet Services
www.Pereira3D.com
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2021-05-23 15:33
Hi All,
We seem to have lost the focus of my initial question. It would seem that a discussion of fabric versus polyurethane would be a new thread.
Hank
Post Edited (2021-05-23 16:24)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-05-23 16:47
For sake of clarity, I assumed the the search for a PLASTIC bass clarinet ligature implied that you wanted to eschew other materials. The questions/answers to differences from one material to another seems germane.
What am I missing?
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2021-05-24 05:06
Paul,
You aren't missing anything, really. Perhaps, I was overeager to have more feedback from bass clarinet players and I'll have to be more patient until the 3D is more widely being used/trialed.
One thing that is invaluable is the direct input from Ryan Pereira on his research and development of the materials he is using and the processes. This is great stuff, Ryan!
How often do we get an opportunity on this BB to be so engaged directly with a developer? Combine an engineering family background, stir in a exceptional clarinet player, and top it with a dash of entrepreneurial vision and you really have something!
Hank
PS Reminds me of the line from The Graduate. "I want to say one word...plastics."
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2021-06-19 06:51
Hi Hank....
I just ordered a Pereira 3D for my bass because of your comments here. I'll let you know how I like it.
Hope you're doing well!
Phil
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2021-06-19 21:58
Hi Phil,
That's great to hear. I'll be interested in finding out how you like it; but as they say "your mileage may vary." Although there are loads of cool colors, I stayed with a clear and a black (for that dark sound, right :-)).
I did buy two ligatures for my Bb soprano but have been so busy playing bass in two quartets, I have not had a chance to try them. However, since I also use Legere' reeds like Paul, I expect the same excellent results.
One comment is that just like my original Luyben in the 1970s (which I stall play), one has to take several days "stretching" the ligature a little bit so it takes its final form around your reed and mouthpiece. After that short break-in, the longer "pouch" that Paul referred to seems to work fine.
Hank
PS I'm doing well; thanks for asking.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2021-06-20 01:04
DS,
Also, I still have my original Portnoy BP02 around here someplace. That ligature, the Portnoy with a Blue Box VD reed, and an R13 from the Golden Age and I was in heaven. Life was good.
HRL
PS Oh yes, a Mark 6 alto, and a Mark VI tenor with a Berg Larsen MP and ligature. "Those were the days my friend, I thought they'd never end..."
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