Advertising and Web Hosting on Woodwind.Org!

Woodwind.OrgThe Clarinet BBoardThe C4 standard

 
  BBoard Equipment Study Resources Music General    
 
 New Topic  |  Go to Top  |  Go to Topic  |  Search  |  Help/Rules  |  Smileys/Notes  |  Log In   Newer Topic  |  Older Topic 
 My UIL State recording (Premiere Rhapsodie) [comments and critiques welcome]
Author: JasonR 
Date:   2021-05-11 07:36

https://youtu.be/OBmtWtXI8vo

This was taken earlier today, I personally feel like it was a pretty good recording.



Post Edited (2021-05-12 00:22)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: My UIL State recording (Premiere Rhapsodie) [comments and critiques welcome]
Author: BethGraham 
Date:   2021-05-11 17:50

You are fearless -- bravo!

Edited a day later to add stuff after having read other remarks. I heard a ton of hissing in your sound and really do wonder if you're fighting against your reed.

I applaud your wanting to perform uber-challenging pieces. As an adult learner, I'm often eager to jump ahead myself to "get to the good stuff." And you show that you have the ability to do quite a bit at this stage. (Lotsa fast playing!) However, there's much to be said for mastering shorter, less technically challenging pieces first. Really playing the pants off of them.

Simple does not mean easy, and to my mind it's more impressive to perform a technically easier piece flawlessly, with good technique, exquisite timing, and sensitivity to the role of the accompaniment, than to dazzle with a Name Brand Piece(R). Mastery is impressive.

Congratulations on your achievement!

(I'd be interested in hearing your teacher's perspective. It's got to be challenging to balance good, sequential teaching against the desires of the student to move ahead.)



Post Edited (2021-05-12 18:05)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: My UIL State recording (Premiere Rhapsodie) [comments and critiques welcome]
Author: JasonR 
Date:   2021-05-11 19:56

I actually have a story about this piece in particular. In my first accompanist rehearsal, the pianist insulted both me and my lesson teacher multiple times, most notably calling both of us "stupid", for letting me choose such a hard piece. I knew I had the ability to do it and ended up with another accompanist and made it to round 2 of UIL State, which was this recording. I wish I could've shown her the results and seen the look on her face when she understood she was wrong!

Reply To Message
 
 Re: My UIL State recording (Premiere Rhapsodie) [comments and critiques welcome]
Author: Liquorice 
Date:   2021-05-12 02:37

What do you personally feel is good about this recording?

Reply To Message
 
 Re: My UIL State recording (Premiere Rhapsodie) [comments and critiques welcome]
Author: JasonR 
Date:   2021-05-12 07:06

I feel like I had a lot of overall control throughout the piece and I believe my best part was the final fast section. I paid a lot of attention to making sure all the notes were heard and I think that it is reflected in the ending.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: My UIL State recording (Premiere Rhapsodie) [comments and critiques welcome]
Author: brycon 
Date:   2021-05-12 07:39

Quote:

In my first accompanist rehearsal, the pianist insulted both me and my lesson teacher multiple times, most notably calling both of us "stupid", for letting me choose such a hard piece.


Yes, that type of comment is inappropriate.

But at the same time, you're playing contains glaring technical issues that are holding you back from really making music.

Quote:

I feel like I had a lot of overall control throughout the piece and I believe my best part was the final fast section.


I didn't listen past the first page. In the opening, at least, there are many intonation problems: you're consistently very sharp. Moreover, there are many rhythmic mistakes. In the second bar of the main melody, for instance, you play an Eb eighth-note as a triplet eighth-note.

If you aren't aware of these things, I encourage you to record yourself more frequently, practice with drone pitches, practice with a metronome, etc. Anything to make yourself consciously aware of these technical issues and therefore allow you to raise your goals further than sort of getting the right notes and rhythms. Good luck!



Reply To Message
 
 Re: My UIL State recording (Premiere Rhapsodie) [comments and critiques welcome]
Author: JasonR 
Date:   2021-05-12 08:19

Quote:

In the opening, at least, there are many intonation problems: you're consistently very sharp.


I know this is going to sound like a little bit of a cop out, but it started raining after I had already tuned and it messed a bit with tuning and my reed.

Although I do appreciate the criticism completely. I know I'm not perfect and I enjoy getting quality feedback.



Reply To Message
 
 Re: My UIL State recording (Premiere Rhapsodie) [comments and critiques welcome]
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2021-05-12 15:36

Hey JasonR,



I second the comment above pointing to your fearlessness. Picking a work that is clearly a challenge and seeing it through has merit. Also, as pointed out above, posting to the internet seeking all commentary is yet another level of grit that I never had as a youth........would've come in handy at auditions!


Firstly I'd say you'd be able to improve things quite a bit if you and your instructor could explore trying to use softer reeds (or a more closed mouthpiece). There is a bit too much air in the sound rather than sound and a more responsive set up would go a long way to turning that around.


You must be aware that there are so many points along the way where your current accompanist went to great lengths to stay with you despite irregularities in rhythm. That is what I think is what your former accompanist was referring to.


So this gets to a very fundamental way one approaches learning how to play and how to practice.



I fully admit that my tendency for much of my fundamental years was based upon, "moving on." That is, I would say to myself, "I'll get that next time," or "I could play that better if if were slower, but it's not bad closer to tempo."



Larry Combs (a former principal clarinetist of the Chicago Symphony) is (or at least was) a proponent of S-L-O-W practice. That is, going over things so that EVERYTHING you practice is one hundred percent under your fingers and perfect. The point of that is the you not only train your fingers to hit the right sequence (no matter what), but the you HEAR the right sequence (and rhythm) ALL THE TIME. That sort of practice trains your inner ear (your brain) to hear things correctly. Speed will come later.


This makes accuracy KING.


I would say in addition to the softer set up, a good six months or so of the accurate, slow practice would go a long way to bringing you to the next level.





....................Paul Aviles



Reply To Message
 
 Re: My UIL State recording (Premiere Rhapsodie) [comments and critiques welcome]
Author: brycon 
Date:   2021-05-12 19:03

Quote:

I know this is going to sound like a little bit of a cop out, but it started raining after I had already tuned and it messed a bit with tuning and my reed.


Sure: everyone, even the most accomplished professional, deals with these sorts of things.

But the technical issue isn't that you play sharp, it's that you don't seem to hear it or acknowledge it in the performance. When your first G, for example, is 15 to 20 cents sharp to the piano's, why is the next G entrance equally sharp?

So while a good professional, because of reed changes, nerves, or whatever, might also be sharp on the first G, he or she would also be able to recognize it and pull out the barrel, add some fingers on the right hand, alter the embouchure, or any number of things to correct the second G.

For better or worse, audition panels often focus on more objective playing parameters: rhythm, intonation, dynamic contrast, and basic sound. And as people above have posted, you have much work to do in all these areas. The most important thing, however, is that you yourself "hear" the work you have to do. (In that Broadwell stages-of-competence pyramid, you're at "unconscious incompetence" and need to will yourself into "conscious incompetence.") It's one of the reasons why advice in this format is largely useless: I can tell you you're sharp on Gs; you can then flatten Gs; but if you aren't able to hear in the moment of performance that you're sharp on Gs, it's of no use.

Same with Paul's advice. Practicing slowly might be great (for what it's worth, I think it's useful in some circumstances and useless in many others). But if you're just practicing slowly because Larry Combs says so, you might as well not even bother practicing. Again, the first step is to be able to hear what you want to improve; then you can form goals and seek out practice strategies to fix these things.



Post Edited (2021-05-12 19:05)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: My UIL State recording (Premiere Rhapsodie) [comments and critiques welcome]
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2021-05-12 19:19

Thank you 'brycon' for bringing up the criticism of the "slow practice."


Someone about a year ago posted a video of some marvelous "tricks" to practicing fast. The video was made by a violinist making the point that playing something like the Tchaikovsky would be impossible without it. One method was to break things up into just pairs of notes with the first being quick grace note or even a flick that you barely hear..........and other such permutations of numbers of notes and speed of them versus a landing note.


If anyone has the link to that violinist video PLEASE repost.........it is wonderful.



however



If you have fundamental issues of accuracy, then you need to create a BASE LINE with slow practice. If you personally 'brycon' have not had the need for fundamental work or have NOT had success with slowing things down with students, I might suggest you are in the minority......mozel. But I think most of us can benefit from starting from a place of "sure footedness" that can only be achieved in a manner much like a baby taking its first steps, or as Marcellus once described learning how to tongue properly - "It's like potty training."





.....................Paul Aviles



Reply To Message
 
 Re: My UIL State recording (Premiere Rhapsodie) [comments and critiques welcome]
Author: BethGraham 
Date:   2021-05-12 19:24

"Again, the first step is to be able to hear what you want to improve; then you can form goals and seek out practice strategies to fix these things."

And this is where your teacher's guidance comes in, to help you form goals and work towards them. I'm always really curious what the teacher's perspective is when I read posts from developing players.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: My UIL State recording (Premiere Rhapsodie) [comments and critiques welcome]
Author: brycon 
Date:   2021-05-12 22:22

Quote:

If you have fundamental issues of accuracy, then you need to create a BASE LINE with slow practice. If you personally 'brycon' have not had the need for fundamental work or have NOT had success with slowing things down with students, I might suggest you are in the minority......mozel. But I think most of us can benefit from starting from a place of "sure footedness" that can only be achieved in a manner much like a baby taking its first steps, or as Marcellus once described learning how to tongue properly - "It's like potty training."


The student, though, had issues with intonation and rhythm in a section of Debussy that's already slow. So I'm not sure how slow practice would fix these problems: seems like a canned response to me. If it were me, by contrast, I would practice with a drone or do rhythm and ear-training exercises to improve these facets of my playing. Again, like most practice strategies, slow practice is good for some things but not others.

(A bit of an aside: You must know that babies don't learn to walk by standing up, very slowly taking a left step over and over again for weeks until they feel comfortable with that step, then adding a right step and slowly practicing taking two steps over and over again for weeks, and so on. Instead, they challenge themselves, go for it, make mistakes, fall over a few times, but eventually figure it out. Focusing on perfection just isn't how kids learn things. I suggest clarinetists should learn more like kids and less like adults.)

Quote:

And this is where your teacher's guidance comes in, to help you form goals and work towards them. I'm always really curious what the teacher's perspective is when I read posts from developing players.


Yes. But the point is, if a teacher, player, or internet poster says, "you need to work on intonation," and you therefore set that goal for yourself, until you actually hear for yourself that you do in fact need to work on intonation, progress will be hit or miss.

The work of a teacher, then, isn't so much guiding a student toward proper goals as it is guiding a student toward awareness--uncovering for his or herself what areas need improvement and in what ways. The great writer Walter Benjamin made this distinction in what he called "information" versus "knowledge." A teacher saying "practice slowly" or "improve your intonation" is information; it's cheap and an internet poster can give it to you. Guiding a student toward hearing an intonation problem, which he can therefore fix on his own, is much more valuable.



Reply To Message
 
 Re: My UIL State recording (Premiere Rhapsodie) [comments and critiques welcome]
Author: JasonR 
Date:   2021-05-12 22:30

I don't want to sound rude, I really appreciate all of the feedback, but the intonation was really a one off due to weather. I hadn't realized this time and then didn't really notice it because I was focused on the piece itself. I know I still have quite a bit of work to do, but can we stray off the intonation related comments and critiques?

Reply To Message
 
 Re: My UIL State recording (Premiere Rhapsodie) [comments and critiques welcome]
Author: Liquorice 
Date:   2021-05-13 01:29

JasonR- I believe that Brycon is trying to help you realise that AWARENESS about your intonation is a very important thing.

You see, there is a big difference between me being out of tune because of external factors (eg. the temperature in the room or the tuning of the piano) and me attempting to play in tune despite these difficulties. It doesn't seem that you were aware that there were tuning issues, which points to the fact that you need to bring this more into your awareness. That is completely normal for someone of your age and your playing level. Playing really in tune is actually one of the most challenging aspects of clarinet playing.

You posted saying that comments and critiques are welcome. If you are serious about your playing, then take this critique and work on it. It's clearly one aspect of your playing that needs more attention. If you are not sure how to work on it I would be happy to give you some pointers.

Good luck!



Post Edited (2021-05-13 01:54)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: My UIL State recording (Premiere Rhapsodie) [comments and critiques welcome]
Author: JasonR 
Date:   2021-05-13 02:27

I'm not trying to discount the critique, I'm just trying to say that I understand the critique on the intonation, but I don't want it to be the only point of discussion.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: My UIL State recording (Premiere Rhapsodie) [comments and critiques welcome]
Author: brycon 
Date:   2021-05-13 03:21

Quote:

I'm not trying to discount the critique, I'm just trying to say that I understand the critique on the intonation, but I don't want it to be the only point of discussion.


Sorry. I'm not trying to be pedantic. But it's such an important point, which if you take it, could help you bring your playing to a new level. The critique isn't about your intonation:

Quote:

I hadn't realized this time and then didn't really notice it because I was focused on the piece itself.


It's this statement here. You aren't entirely aware of what needs improving--that is, there's a disconnect between the way you perceive things in the moment of performance and the way we, an audience, perceive them (and as far as Liqourice and myself go, I believe our perceptions are much closer to reality).

Were you aware, for example, of all the moments you altered Debussy's notated rhythms? Were you aware of all the spots you didn't adhere to the written dynamic or expressive markings?

Online or even in-person critiques aren't going to help you unless you become aware of these things. It's the first step toward improving your clarinet playing. I'll stop repeating myself now! Best of luck!



Reply To Message
 Avail. Forums  |  Threaded View   Newer Topic  |  Older Topic 


 Avail. Forums  |  Need a Login? Register Here 
 User Login
 User Name:
 Password:
 Remember my login:
   
 Forgot Your Password?
Enter your email address or user name below and a new password will be sent to the email address associated with your profile.
Search Woodwind.Org

Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

The Clarinet Pages
is sponsored by:

For Sale
Put your ads for items you'd like to sell here. Free! Please, no more than two at a time - ads removed after two weeks.

Miscellaneous
Services and products too varied to categorize! Repair, recording, news

Music & Books
CDs, Sheet Music, and some of the greatest reference books ever written!

Instruments
Retailers and manufacturers of clarinets, both modern and early replica

Service
Instrument repairs, restorations, adjustments, and overhauls.

Accessories
Accessories that every clarinetist needs - reed makers and shapers, ligatures, greases, oils, and preservatives ... and more!

Events
Major events especially for clarinetists

Mouthpieces & Barrels
Fine makers of mouthpieces and barrels, from wood to crystal to hard rubber and plastic

Reeds
Great reeds available from around the world

 
     Copyright © Woodwind.Org, Inc. All Rights Reserved    Privacy Policy    Contact charette@woodwind.org