 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: McDonalds Eater
Date: 2021-04-15 00:48
I've been getting more interested in learning more about mouthpieces, and naturally I want to know more about how to reface, work on them etc.
I'm not looking to become an established mouthpiece refacer by any means, but I do want to know the "basics" or easier aspects if that makes sense. Things such as measuring the tip, working on the facing, adjusting response/articulation, things like that.
Any books or videos you guys recommend?
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2021-04-15 02:10
I have the Wanne book and it is totally saxophone, so only 50% is useful for clarinet, but it will give the basics for knowing what is involved. There is much on YouTube.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2021-04-15 04:23
Lee Livengood goes over the basics of nomenclature, measurement, and simple first steps at adjustment in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLJDysOwMG0.
Brad Behn on his Facebook page has several videos from the past couple of years showing him trying various mouthpiece--rubber and glass--and making step by step adjustments.
Apprenticing to clarinet techs like these and working yourself on a series of cheap mouthpieces first before you have a go at the high level ones is probably the tried and true way of learning refacing. Clark Fobes, for instance, spent time with Glen Johnston, Everett Matson and Greg Dufford to learn his craft, and many techs apprenticed with Everett Matson. People like Livengood, Matson, Behn, Fobes, Hite, Glen Johnston, etc. have never transferred their considerable knowledge to the pages of a book.
Post Edited (2021-04-16 00:47)
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2021-04-15 18:14
This is a decent place to start.
https://youtu.be/jLXNVzWbqiw
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2021-04-16 17:18
There are some good resources in the files here. It is from a now defunct a yahoo group I used to run.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1vRYKEMwnatvajT8i5eitRZTAOu0HYxv3
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2021-04-17 02:14
Just dive in. Prepare to ruin dozens of mouthpieces before you get the knack and start making good ones
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2021-04-17 06:09
I would like to add a few thoughts for consideration and possible discussion.
First, to become an excellent refacer, I believe a person should be an above average player. If a person's playing is limited by difficulties in playing in the upper altissimo, or if they inherently have trouble with performing fast staccato, how can they properly test the results of the adjustments that they have made?
Second, I believe a person's hearing can severely limit whatever adjustments they may want to make. How can a refacer adjust for a certain partial or harmonic if they simply can't hear it?
I have never read anyone talk about these possible requirements.
I think they are important.
What do you think?
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Author: JohnP
Date: 2021-04-17 11:31
Dan, I agree absolutely. I have always thought you have to be able to play well to adjust mouthpieces. You have to be able to judge what you’re trying to achieve by playing the mouthpieces. Can it be done by measurement alone? As far as the facing is concerned, maybe, I’m still doubtful but the slightest adjustment to the baffle can make or break the response, I think you need to be able to hear that.
John
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2021-04-17 18:47
You can compensate for not being a great player if you have others who can test for you.
You can compensate for not having great analysis, engineering and math skills with a lot more trial and error experiments. Notes on paper vs spreadsheets.
I don’t know if you can compensate for precise hand measurement and adjusting skills. Craftsmanship. Just thinking out loud.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2021-04-17 22:09
Mojo, the compensating ideas are interesting, however, I believe I can foresee a lot of possible problems.
Let me just blurt out a few things as they come to my mind.
A customer sends a refacer their mpc and says they're have an "X" problem. Now, the first friend says: "Hmm...I'm not experiencing the "X" problem. However, I'm definitely experiencing a "Y" problem with this mpc." Now, what would the refacer do? Let's say he or she then takes it to another friend who says:"Yes, this mpc has the same "X" problem as mine!" Again, what does the refacer do? And, lastly, let's say a third friend tries it out and says:"Nope...no "X" problem here. However, this "Z" problem would really limit me from playing "M" (which represents a specific, difficult piece of classical music.)
All of the above kinda represent a can of worms to me.
I could go on further with including time lapses; would your friends want any kind of monetary compensation, etc., etc., etc.
The best situation would be for the actual player to bring their entire clarinet to the refacer and have them talk about the particular problem they believe their mouthpiece is giving them.
The refacer, who also happens to be a thoroughly experienced player, probably would ask their customer to play and reproduce the problem. Then, it's quite possible that the experienced player/refacer might find out very quickly that their customer actually has an embouchure problem, or a reed/mpc mismatch problem, or one of their pads isn't seating quite right, or they've got a fingering problem, or....
In other words, the customer's mpc might be just fine.
But, since the office visit is not really practical and different friends may give differing opinions, I still maintain that the refacer also needs to be an experienced player.
p.s. One last thought...an experienced refacer should also be able to "optimize" a particular facing for a specific reed type and strength. From Walter Grabner's site: "Most of my mouthpieces are optimized for Vandoren V12 reeds and the most popular strengths, either #3, 3.5, 3.75, or 4. Of course, other brands of reeds work fine, such as Gonzales, Vandoren Rue Lepic, Peter Leuthner, etc. Every soprano clarinet mouthpiece is also tested using Legere Signature European Cut Reeds."
Now, that is also the kind of "experience" that I'm talking about. Adjusting the facing for a particular reed and strength is a unique form of artistry. And, as seabreeze said above, you won't find these secrets in any book.
p.p.s. The above reference to Walter Grabner's optimization quote is used with Walter's permission.
Just my opinions...
Post Edited (2021-04-18 00:56)
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2021-04-18 16:39
I have heard some sax players say they prefer a refacer that can play jazz over chord changes.
Pro athletes go to doctors who do not play their sport. Or any sport.
Many instrument repair people do not play their work. As you mentioned, it is what the client plays that is important. Even if you are a good player, you may not be able to duplicate their issues. Sometimes it is just them and not their equipment. I have resorted to sending some clients a video of me play testing their mouthpiece out of the box and they wondered what I changed. It was nothing! I’m not that great but they were worse.
I do not know of any refacer that uses someone else to regularly test their work. But several do not need to play test a mouthpiece to change it in a way that the client wants. Third party play testing is used a lot in the development of new mouthpieces a maker wants to sell.
Ever hear a performance and think it would be better if they were a good refacer?
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2021-04-18 18:26
Mojo wrote:
> But several do not need to play
> test a mouthpiece to change it in a way that the client wants.
In the same vein, the times that I watched Everett Mattson work (on my mouthpieces or those of other players), the client did the play-testing. Matt knew what tweaks would produce what effect and worked to get the result the client wanted. Mattson could play (although I never actually heard him to say how well), but he was not a professional clarinetist or even a musician by profession. As I remember, he was an engineer.
The other point to be clear about is that really excellent mouthpiece craftsmen work a great deal of their "magic" inside the mouthpiece, not just by changing or repairing the facing curve. So "refacing" a mouthpiece is only the tip of the iceberg of mouthpiece adjustment.
Karl
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Author: Ed
Date: 2021-04-18 21:07
Matson was well schooled as a clarinetist, but like many musicians, made his actual living doing other work. Any time I went to him I would play the mouthpiece but would also ask him to test it to get his thoughts. He generally would only play a few notes on it and would immediately know what additional tweaks would be needed. Through his many years of experience he had an amazing feel and insight and would often sense very subtle things that I did not detect.
Some further background can be found in this thread:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=423981&t=423981
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