 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chalumeau
Date: 2021-03-30 00:26
Hi all,
I'm wondering if anyone has a recommendation for a type of mouthpiece to suggest for an average high school musician who still has lots of embouchure and articulation issues to work out. I was thinking of the Fobes Debut mouthpiece, but the student says they have a budget for a higher end one. Even if they have the money, is it worth getting a professional mouthpiece at this point? Curious to hear anyone's thoughts.
Thanks!
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-03-30 02:09
I would say (and believe it pertains to anything really), that you get the best equipment that you can muster (budget dependent) since you only add other constraints as you move down the quality scale. And yes, there are considerations regarding whether the student is serious etc, etc.
The Fobes Debut is fortunately good enough to be as good as many more expensive "pro" mouthpieces. But if you can bump to to $100 or so, you could try the Vandoren M13 or a ESM MCK-1. Both are pretty standard facings for classical playing and would give your student the most bang for the under $300 price range.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Leonard Alterman
Date: 2021-03-30 03:05
When I was starting I did very well on the Yamaha 4c and the Hite Premier.
Post Edited (2021-03-30 03:06)
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2021-03-30 03:38
I believe Paul is absolutely right. Yes, the Fobes Debut is a very good student mouthpiece. However, if the student can actually afford a higher end, hard rubber, professional mouthpiece, I believe the difference will be immediately noticeable.
The only place where I would disagree with Paul is that the professional mouthpieces he mentioned are "way under" $300. I think those are more in the $120 to $145 range.
Still, absolutely well worth the extra money!
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2021-03-30 04:31
Quote:
average high school musician
This statement has variable meaning depending on personal experience.
In my experience, the "average high school musician" wasn't planning to make a living centered around music, nor did the "average high school musician" take care of their instrument. A single dint, drop, deep scratch, etc. can turn that $100-$300 mouthpiece into an improperly working piece of equipment which might hold the student back. Even if the student was serious/mature - sometimes the damage was done by a bandmate swinging something around, knocking something over, throwing a football through the bandroom, etc.
For all but two or three folks in my high school, I'd have suggested sticking with the cheaper alternative.
I'd say a lot depends on the maturity level of the student and their bandmates.
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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Author: fernie121
Date: 2021-03-30 05:19
Playing on inadequate equipment can be very discouraging to a student. In HS I played on a Vandoren M13. Someone bumped into me and I dropped my clarinet. Sort of caught it mid air but not before the beak of the mouthpiece slammed into the concrete, crushing it. I played a few days on a no name student mouthpiece and it was a nightmare. I ended up replacing it soon after with a Vandoren M13 Lyre.
Don’t underestimate a HS student’s ability to understand the value of a mouthpiece that costs a couple hundred dollars. Especially when they picked it out themselves out of many and love the way it plays for them.
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2021-03-30 08:11
I used an Selmer HS** in high school. Later switched to Vandorens (V360 first and now 5RV). I recall that Selmer did what I needed it to do.
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2021-03-30 08:32
Fobes Debut. There's no point in spending more until the issues you mentioned are worked out. In high school if you are going to have one mouthpiece, that means you are likely going to march with it. The Debut is good for a first decent mouthpiece and then it can become the back-up/marching mouthpiece when the student has fundamentals that will make the selection of a professional mouthpiece a worthwhile and individualized choice.
I've had top All-State students still on the Debut. It didn't hold them back at all. In non-Covid times I'd have such a student try a Debut, a Behn Overture, and a Ridenour Encore (all similar in price) and have them get the one that seemed to produce the best sound and articulation most easily for them on a new reed.
Anders
Post Edited (2021-03-30 08:38)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2021-03-30 18:26
nellsonic wrote:
> In high school if you are
> going to have one mouthpiece, that means you are likely going
> to march with it.
Many of my private students, when they've upgraded from their starter rent-to-own clarinets, have kept the first instrument specifically to use for marching, along with whatever stock mouthpiece came with it.
So, if this student is **conscientious** enough (wants to play his/her best regardless of career aspirations) to have upgraded the clarinet, I would side with those recommending upgrade mouthpieces like Vandoren M13 Lyre or M15 or D'Addario or Fobes Nova (his intermediate model, made of hard rubber, not plastic).
Embouchure and articulation issues are endemic to clarinet study and don't really ever go away. They just become more refined. If the student is conscientious enough about results that private lessons are involved, IMO it's good to get rid of as many obstacles to best playing results as possible.
That said - a better mouthpiece shouldn't be marching. That's what 4Cs and Goldentones are for.
Karl
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Author: Ed
Date: 2021-03-30 22:46
"I've had top All-State students still on the Debut. It didn't hold them back at all."
I agree completely and have had the same experience. The Fobes is a fantastic mouthpiece and plays mush better than some mouthpiece at many times the price.
FWIW- there are times when I throw on a Debut when teaching in school to avoid possibly damaging my regular mouthpiece. Sometimes I forget I am playing it and start thinking about how great my mouthpiece plays/feels/sounds. Only when I go to take it off do I do a double take and realize what I have on!
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2021-03-31 02:27
kdk wrote:
> That said - a better mouthpiece shouldn't be marching.
Sure, one CAN run in flip-flops and save the good shoes for certain conditions, but that doesn't mean your feet are not going to suffer unnecessarily.
I'd rather have two Debuts, one for marching and one for indoors, than one professional mouthpiece and one 'whatever came in the case' that I had to play for any length of time. Many of my students do in fact keep one in their marching case and another with the wood clarinet, as well as separate sets of reeds.
Nothing wrong with getting a professional mouthpiece if one is still remedial in fundamentals, especially if one is willing to shop again when that stuff gets straightened out to some degree.
Playing a stock mouthpiece because 'it's just marching band' is not doing anyone any favors.
Anders
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2021-04-04 18:45
A good alternative to the Vandoren-level mouthpieces might be the Fobes Nova. That one costs about the same as a Vandoren and is hand finished by Clark from a hard rubber Babbitt blank. I played one in high school and still have it around. To me, it outplays the comparable Vandoren mouthpieces in my drawer.
I think that line gets overlooked sometimes, but they are professional quality mouthpieces at least as much as Vandoren.
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Author: gwie
Date: 2021-04-05 12:00
I recommend the Fobes Debut and Behn Overture to all my beginners and intermediates who are used to playing on the doorstops that come with their instruments.
But really, the best deal to be had on a good mouthpiece in the $100-ish range Brad Behn's side project, his Epic CNC "Prescott" mouthpieces (www.epic-cnc.com) from the modern mouthpiece blanks he is producing. They come in three different facings, all extremely playable, it's just up to personal preference. They're incredibly consistent, especially compared to the competition.
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Author: Mr. Q
Date: 2021-04-06 23:54
If money is tight, a Yamaha 4C mouthpiece can be had for about $30 and is a good all around mouthpiece, especially for beginners. If cost is less of a restraint, a Vandoren B45 is better and costs $80-100, depending on the model you choose. As mouthpieces go, the B45 is still not all that expensive and is a fine mouthpiece.
I have one of each. They look virtually identical, but I find the B45 easier to play and believe it produces a better sound, due at least in part to the 4C being made of plastic and the B45 (mine is the 13 Series, Profile 88) being hard rubber. I like them both, but the 4C was quickly repurposed for camping and as a backup.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2021-04-13 09:32
If cost is a concern, I'd go with the Fobes Debut.
A Debut equipped with a quality ligature and carefully selected reeds can perform at a very high level, and most certainly won't slow down anyone's progress.
The seldom-mentioned Yamaha 3C is one of my budget backup MPs and I've grown fond of its covered, dark tone and precise response. It really has a lot of character--but it's not quite as forgiving and fun to play as the Debut.
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Author: EbClarinet
Date: 2021-04-13 12:21
My trombonist hs band director put me on a HS Star, which dramatically helped my tone, for hs. I guess if the students wants 2 develop hs level tone quality, that would b a good mouth piece.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2021-04-13 17:46
Quote:
My trombonist hs band director put me on a HS Star, which dramatically helped my tone, for hs. I guess if the students wants 2 develop hs level tone quality, that would b a good mouth piece.
The HS* has been out of production for years, and cost around US$130 the last time I saw them on offer.
I played an HS* for years, and the Debut offers a similar playing experience--delightful!
I got my HS* brand new for thirty bucks around 1988. Those were the days...
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Author: BethGraham
Date: 2021-04-13 17:55
The Fobes Debut was a great mouthpiece for me as a beginner; I've now put it in the bag with the Trusty Bundy for use in outdoor performances.
Fun fact: my first clarinet teacher, with whom I never really jelled, had never heard of the Debut, which leads me to wonder how many other workaday teachers are unaware of it and other tools that can make life so much more pleasant for beginners.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2021-04-13 18:17
The Selmer HS* mouthpiece during the 1950s and early 60s vied with the Vandoren 5RV (or 2RV) as one of the most popular "classical" mouthpieces on the market. The HS*, because of the close facing and gentle facing curve, was very easy to play. It required little embouchure or jaw bite pressure and could articulate easily even in the altissimo. Though no longer produced, used HS* pieces go on auction sites frequently for very low prices. Many thousands of these were produced, so the used ones are plentiful rather than rare. Today on one famous auction site there are at least 10 HS* pieces ranging in price from $9.00 to $30.00, and some of these are "buy now" offers rather than opening bid amounts. Of course there are sellers asking much more for their particular HS* pieces as well.
The Selmer HS* was considered a reliable "workhorse" mouthpiece rather than a gem that players would rave about. HS* pieces will probably never be sought out he way that old Cheds and Kaspars, Alelandais and Kanters are. Many used HS* mouthpieces because of their age will have to be refaced to play well. High schoolers looking for something that plays right out the box might be better served by buying a Brad Behn Overture mouthpiece new for $35, if they want something more upscale but not too expensive, a Brad Behn CNC Epic Prescott mouthpiece at around $159 would be an excellent choice that would serve the needs of concert band players as well as players trying out for all state competitions. Get something cheaper for marching out in the field though.
Post Edited (2021-04-13 23:25)
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