 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: morgenflynn
Date: 2021-03-02 02:11
Hi there, brass player here, but trying to rehome my dad's old clarinet and I have no idea of the value. As said, it is an E&S Buffet-Crampon with serial number B 428. Seems to be in great shape. I'm sure, due to sitting for years it will require some work before being usable, but nothing is broken or missing, still in the original hard case. Any ides of the approximate value?
Second question: what is the best way to sell vintage instruments? I have this and a tenor sax. A Buescher 156 tenor sax, SN 334443, if anyone has an idea what that is worth... Find a vintage music shop? Sell online? Any recommendations?
Thanks all!
Post Edited (2021-03-02 02:22)
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Author: m1964
Date: 2021-03-03 06:54
E&S was a student model with Buffet-Crampon name on it. A few months ago I bought one for $60, re-padded it, changed all the corks including tenon corks, and when I tried it, it sounded like a student level clarinet, no better than a good plastic one. And was not in tune either. I sold it off eBay, but had I known the end result, I would not have bought it in the first place.
Unless yours is a Master Model, which were supposedly R13 Buffets with cosmetic defects, it may not be worth investing any money into.
Or, you are lucky and yours is in tune and sounds better than a student level instrument.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2021-03-03 07:59
m1964 wrote:
> E&S was a student model with Buffet-Crampon name on it. A few
> months ago I bought one for $60, re-padded it, changed all the
> corks including tenon corks, and when I tried it, it sounded
> like a student level clarinet, no better than a good plastic
> one. And was not in tune either.
> Or, you are lucky and yours is in tune and sounds better than a
> student level instrument.
Buffet E&S was, as I remember, Buffet's top student line before the R-13. Was it designated E-13? I remember having several students back in my early teaching years who bought them and played well with them.
I don't know all these years later what might have happened to the E&S that you refurbished that might have screwed up the intonation or even the sound quality. Maybe I just remember them with an unfounded favorable prejudice, or maybe the one you had was the victim of a distorted bore or a mismatched barrel.
To the OP, I think you'd be able to get some idea of the general price level of those instruments today by searching for them on EBay. But you'd need to have someone reasonably knowledgeable evaluate the one you have in person, hands-on to get a meaningful recommendation about a selling price.
I think the same is true about the sax as well.
Sometimes repair people will sell used instruments on a consignment basis from their shops. If you know any of the local school band teachers, you might find an interested student. You could offer them on the For Sale page here at Woodwind.org (the link is highlighted in green on the right of this screen). One problem you're going to run into now, justified or not, is COVID-19-based reticence to handle or play on anyone else's instrument, particularly a wind instrument. So you may have trouble selling these instruments until after the Pandemic has cleared out.
Karl
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2021-03-04 08:39
m1964 wrote:
"Unless yours is a Master Model, which were supposedly R13 Buffets with cosmetic defects..."
(Jack counts to 10 before beginning to type.) This is incorrect, fake news, urban legend and I really wish people would stop propagating it. It was debunked years ago and has been discussed thoroughly on this Board in the past. There are a VERY few (possibly less than 10) E&S Master Model clarinets that actually are R13s that were rejected on final inspection. These have serial numbers in the Buffet professional list (no letter prefix and, as I recall without looking it up, numbers in the late 40000s or early 50000s) and have the characteristic cutout under the right-hand cluster keys. From around K3000 or K3500 to around K10500 virtually all, if not all E&S clarinets are marked "Master Model." That would be a lot of rejections. Buffet considered the E&S to be an intermediate model and claim to have made them in the Paris factory where they make their professional instruments.
Model designations are confusing, to say the least. Buffet used to have a serial number lookup for clarinets made in the main Paris factory (onlyprofessional and intermediate models -- no student models which were made in a different factory) going back to the 1950s. In that lookup, they actually referred to the E&S as an E12, though E12 was not marked on the instruments, themselves. By the time their serial number list begins, all E&S clarinets had a K-prefix to their serial number. When Buffet later adopted the E13 designation (when Boosey and Hawkes bought the company?), the Evette and Schaeffer designation became E13. That's why people sometimes refer to E&S clarinets as E13s. From sometime around K10500, Buffet stopped labeling all their E&S clarinets "Master Model" and reserved that designation for standard production run E&S instruments that performed particularly well on final testing. I've always believed, though I have no proof, that the change in designation accompanied a design change -- perhaps adoption of a polycylindrical bore. As I recall, for a short time, the E&S "Master Model" became the E45, BTW. Karl, I've owned a few E&S clarinets and I agree with you, at least for those above K10500, they are quite decent horns.
Unfortunately, Morgen, I think yours may be a horse of a different color. The B-prefix series predated (or, if you believe Vytas Krass, ran concurrently with) early K-series E&S. Your father's instrument thus dates back at least to the 1940s or early 1950s. With a serial number as low as yours (3 digits), it might even date back to the 1930s. Pictures would help determine. In either case, it is an older design than the 1960s K-series and, in general, clarinets don't improve with age. Vytas Krass, a very reputable repair tech, has actually provided some compelling evidence that non K-series E&S clarinets were actually manufactured by the Robert Malerne company for Buffet. Buffet has not acknowledged that claim, however.
In excellent shape with new pads and corks (and probably an oiling) and little or no key wear (actually, as old as your instrument is, it might not be plated), I'd be surprised if a knowledgeable buyer on eBay would give you more than $150 for it. In lesser condition, it might only bring $50 - $75.
If you could sell it locally to a buyer who tested it, or had a teacher test it, and found it to play well, you might be able to get a little more. If I were you, I would wait until the Covid crisis is over to sell and then, if you have a reputable music store in town, I would take it to them. They might be willing to take it on consignment or, at least, give you an idea of what the local market will bear.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Jer
Date: 2021-03-04 20:26
I have an E&S Master Model and it's a darn good horn. I also recently bought a regular E&S and my chainsaw sounds better. It's probably heading a lamp death sentence.
The Master was $110.00 and the regular was $75.00.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2021-03-05 13:18
m1964 wrote:
"Unless yours is a Master Model, which were supposedly R13 Buffets with cosmetic defects..."
Jack Kissinger wrote:
"(Jack counts to 10 before beginning to type.) This is incorrect, fake news, urban legend and I really wish people would stop propagating it. It was debunked years ago..."
Jack,
My mistake regarding these "Master Model" E&Ss.
The keywork on the Evette I had was pretty solid, but the sound was not even close to any of the pro models.
*** Easy enough to get confused when checking "famous" action site: E&Ss are advertised as Buffets, clarinets from 1930-40ies advertized as R13s...
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2021-03-07 03:06
Please try to post the pictures again. Include good pics of the logos.
Keep in mind that market value is not necessarily a good reflection of the intrinsic value of the horn. Just because people won't pay much doesn't mean it isn't a good horn for a someone.
Clarinets don't seem to be selling well at all right now. Saxophones seem ok, but it depends on exactly what your saxophone is as to how much it's worth.
Evette and Schaeffers labeled with "Buffet" bring more money than ones without, K numbers can bring significantly more money ($200-$400), but neither are in demand like regular Buffets. It might be a good student horn. "Evette" is different, and less valuable.
The saxophone is apparently an "Aristocrat", but the problem with that is that they've named everything from student to professional models "Aristocrat" for about 100 years. Based on what I could find, yours is probably a good player when it's in good condition.
Ask about the saxophone here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/484438008300344 Asking about the model, rather than the value, may be best. For value, a place to start is "sold" listings on ebay.
- Matthew Simington
Post Edited (2021-03-07 03:14)
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