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 Buffet Crampon Carl FIsher model identification
Author: thousandwords 
Date:   2021-02-22 04:19
Attachment:  buffet crampon.jpg (44k)
Attachment:  buffet carl fisher.jpg (84k)

Hi guys,

Does anybody know what model this clarinet is?

Picked one up on ebay auction for $51 for a winter project (I own 2 Oehler clarinets but no Boehm yet).

I learned to play on Boehm as a kid so I will try to restore ir on my own, which I hope will be a fun project for my spare time. If results will be underwhelming I won't cry that much for the change I spent on it, and if it turns out well and it's a player so the better- will finally have a Boehm to play along my Oehlers.

Thanks a lot!

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 Re: Buffet Crampon Carl FIsher model identification
Author: jdbassplayer 
Date:   2021-02-22 06:03

This is sometimes called a "pre-r13". If you can find the serial number on the bottom of the joints you can determine when it was made:

https://clarinetfingeringchart.com/enthusiast/buffet-serial-numbers/

This instrument is an "enhanced Boehm" and has a forked Eb/Bb and an articulated C#/G#. Unfortunately it does not have a left hand Ab/Eb like some enhanced Boehm clarinets but this is not a huge deal. It was a professional level instrument in its day and is still a good intermediate level instrument today.

-Jdbassplayer.

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 Re: Buffet Crampon Carl FIsher model identification
Author: thousandwords 
Date:   2021-02-22 06:15

Thank you jdbasspayer! I don;t have the serial number yet but will have it once the horn get here by mail. I will make sure I follow your link for the year it was made.
I am not a musician by trade, play only for pleasure, so an intermediate level horn should be good enough for me, provided I will succeed in my overhaul endeavor.

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 Re: Buffet Crampon Carl FIsher model identification
Author: thousandwords 
Date:   2021-02-22 06:31

I just did a quick search for "pre r13 Buffet Crampon clarinets" and most if not all horns that came up have the regular "2 joint" key layout.
What confuses me about this clarinet though is the C# key, it looks like the ones I see on one piece horns (as opposed to typical upper and lower joint horns) but judged from the picture the horn seems to have a middle tenon as if it had 2 separate joints. Will figure that out once it comes but it made me wonder if this particular key layout was specific for one particular model they made...

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 Re: Buffet Crampon Carl FIsher model identification
Author: jdbassplayer 
Date:   2021-02-22 06:51

I'm not sure what you mean, but it come apart at the middle. The C#/G# tone hole goes through the tenon.

-Jdbassplayer

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 Re: Buffet Crampon Carl FIsher model identification
Author: thousandwords 
Date:   2021-02-22 07:32

That actually makes sense now. Did not realize there is a hole in the tenon itself on the upper joint that matches the hole the key cup closes on the lower joint but now it all makes perfect sense. Much appreciated.

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 Re: Buffet Crampon Carl FIsher model identification
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2021-02-22 23:24
Attachment:  masspacher.jpg (151k)

http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/download.html/1,7046/buffet%20crampon.jpg

Interesting to see that configuration of the forked Eb/Bb mechanism as I've added a similar design to a couple of my clarinets (see attachment).

Chris.

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 Re: Buffet Crampon Carl FIsher model identification
Author: thousandwords 
Date:   2021-02-22 23:55

That's really neat! How much do you use those fork fingerings and how well do they work for you? Oehler system incorporates fork fingerings for Bb/F and Eb/Bb so I use them frequently.

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 Re: Buffet Crampon Carl FIsher model identification
Author: modernicus 
Date:   2021-02-23 07:21

I saw that one at auction, not too bad a price, upper joint needs crack repair right? It's probably later than 1890, since that's when I believe country of origin label laws came into being applying to the US, and probably later than 1914, since the "Made in" qualifier was required at that point. However, they came even earlier for England in 1887, so I don't know if Buffet labeled all export instruments, I'll have to check all mine again to see which say what. Anyway, it should have a serial number since it 's almost certainly made 1885 or later, which is when I understand they started serial numbers.



Post Edited (2021-02-23 07:41)

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 Re: Buffet Crampon Carl FIsher model identification
Author: thousandwords 
Date:   2021-02-23 08:56

No, no crack in the upper joint. Yeah, I cannot wait for it to get here (should be by the end of the week the latest) so I can get the serial number and stat doing some digging, not speaking of finding out what needs to be done to bring it back in shape.

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 Re: Buffet Crampon Carl FIsher model identification
Author: modernicus 
Date:   2021-02-23 19:27

Look closely at the first two pics- it doesn't look too serious, though- maybe just surface. A very good buy for a Vintage Buffet, I was definitely looking closely at it!



Post Edited (2021-02-23 20:42)

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 Re: Buffet Crampon Carl FIsher model identification
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2021-02-24 15:20

Cracks can always be repaired and shouldn't cause any trouble once done and done well.

With the LH forked Eb/Bb mechanism fitted, you can play both lower Eb and upper Bb as xox|ooo and it's in tune in both registers, unlike the forked fingering on simple/Albert and German/Oehler systems and long Bb (xoo|xoo) on Boehms which is in tune as an upper register Bb, but on the sharp side as a lower register Eb.

And when playing anything with a C-Eb or G-Bb, simply lift LH2 for the Eb/Bb which makes some arpeggios, fingering patterns and other intervals much easier without having to use the side Eb/Bb key (or sliding LH3 to use the Eb/Bb 'sliver' key).

Chris.

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 Re: Buffet Crampon Carl FIsher model identification
Author: thousandwords 
Date:   2021-02-25 05:02

I just looked at the pics and as you said, there is a crack. I can change pads, new cork, shine the keys, but I am not good enough to fix a crack as a professional can. So I will be looking around for a shop that can do it if the only professional repairer that I know declines the job. Thanks for pointing it out. I am still at work now but when I get home it will be waiting for me, just got delivered a few hours ago. Cannot wait.

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 Re: Buffet Crampon Carl FIsher model identification
Author: modernicus 
Date:   2021-02-25 08:01

Always exciting for a package to be waiting with a bright shiny, new, ancient moldy old clarinet in it! I got into collecting clarinets, so I'm only slightly exaggerating... Let us know how it looks, it may be fortunate that the crack is there- no botched poor amateur repair, and may have caused it to be put away without being played for many decades, just waiting for you.

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 Re: Buffet Crampon Carl FIsher model identification
Author: Jack Kissinger 
Date:   2021-03-04 10:01

What we tend to think of today as an "R13" is the designation Buffet adopted in 1955, when it committed to Robert Caree's design, including the polycylindrical bore and undercut tone holes. This has led to some confusion because before Buffet adopted the designation, when Carl Fischer was Buffet's distributor in the United States, Fischer had its own model designations for Buffet clarinets and Fischer (though not Buffet) designated the standard Master Bore, 17-key, 6-ring model as an R13 in its catalogs. To distinguish the two designs some people now refer to the older Fischer R13 as a pre-R13 model. (Confused yet? If not, read on.)

At the time Fischer was its distributor, Buffet offered a variety of key configurations ranging from the standard 17-key, 6-ring that most of us play, to a version with 20 keys and 7 rings (a "full-Boehm" system) with a few alternatives in between.

Using the search function on this site, I found a page from an old Buffet catalog that describes the various alternatives.

http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/download.html/1,2226/Buffet%20catalog.jpg

Your clarinet has the articulated G# key and 7 rings so, it is technically an R14 1/2. Note that Fischer considered the articulated G# as an extra key. (Some might say a pre-R13, R14 1/2 but I would never do that. [rotate])

Cool horn!

Best regards,
jnk

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