 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: TomS
Date: 2021-02-06 21:47
Disclaimer: I don't know the Ridenour family and was not paid or compensated for the following comments. I'm just and old man and have been playing since 1963:
After several years of procrastination, and already owning other instruments made by Tom Ridenour, I've "bitten the bullet" and purchased a new Lyrique 576.
I wish I had made that decision many years ago.
My first impression is that the 576 has the best tuning and possibly the best overall playing characteristics of any other clarinet in my current or past possession.
The key-work is perfectly regulated and fit's my wonky old man's hands like it was custom designed. The keys are strong, nimble, balanced and there is no play or sloppiness and are likely to last as long as in clarinets costing 10 times as much. Would I pay more for infinitesimal cosmetic improvements? No, not a penny. It's a matter of, it's what I like to call, "practical perfection". Besides, I like having identical backups of everything, so one more of these for a spare wouldn't break the bank.
The blowing resistance is very even, note to note, and register to register. All registers speak with ease and control. The altissimo can be navigated delicately (for you Band players struggling through the old marches in the stratosphere) The timbre is warm and with no trace of hardness or glare in the upper clarion register.
And, again, the tuning is excellent. The low F is only slightly, slightly flat, depending on you and your setup. The altissimo E is in tune, the standard F is a hair flat (long fingering right on) ... only the F-sharp takes a little finesse of fingering. For the testing, I am using a D Addario Reserve Evolution MP (440) and Reserve Evolution reeds #3. The clarinet seem to tune acceptably with the Vandoren M13 lyre and M15 lyre, and tends to be on the low side of pitch, but manageable. The 576 seems to be (??) designed for 440 pitch calibration ... I guess ...
So, I know there are still guys and gals playing this instrument. I just wanted to reiterate that the RCP-576BC is still available and still, IMHO, a great clarinet for all.
If your are looking for an all-weather instrument, I believe the 576 definitely out performs my Backun Alpha. And for less money.
Get one while you can. For under a grand, this instrument should be in everyone's clarinet arsenal.
My usual 3-cents worth ...
Tom
Post Edited (2021-02-07 01:30)
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Author: OneWatt
Date: 2021-02-07 08:08
I'll offer a +1 in praise of the Lyrique 576bc from a "different user" perspective...
Like TomS, I also have no financial connection with the Ridenours.
I'm an aspiring old man too - in my mid 60s - but am new to the clarinet. I'm not new to musical instruments by any stretch as our home is filled with them. But a newbie to this "single-reed" world. FWIW, my wind experience until recently was gained years ago: self-taught flute/piccolo and EWI 4000s.
So, with this context, here's my experience since my Ridenour clarinet arrived a few weeks ago...
I cannot imagine anything about it that is lacking... in any respect. And the price is remarkably fair.
A superb instrument - and a bargain.
I've been amazed at how well it plays, how easily I can coax lovely tones to spill out whether I'm reaching for ff or pp (even with my immature embouchure), and how solid and ergonomic it feels in my hands.
Moreover, having read up on clarinet repair/maintenance (Hayes book), I couldn't be happier with the fact that I don't have to deal with "wood issues." Hard rubber seems like such a clearheaded choice. What a blessing.
It has allowed me to confidently attack learning my scales (and 3rds, 4ths, guide tones) in all 12 keys, to cross registers with relative ease, to make decent progress through Langenus, Kroepsch, Baermann Book 3 scales, and now delve into Lennie Niehaus jazz sax materials (for additional articulation practice) along with Coker's Jazz Patterns (to further solidify fingerings under various key signature cycles). My wife and I are also beginning to tackle some clarinet/piano duets.
I'm convinced that this 576 model clarinet is making much of this possible for me. It's a quality instrument which makes playing clarinet a joy.
Moreover, the Ridenours are wonderful to deal with. Quick and candid in response to my concerns/questions, the pride they take in quality is evident in everything I've observed thus far.
Tom's videos also inspired me to set out playing double-lip; I'm pleased to say this was sage advice. No biting necessary to get a broad range of tonal shapes out of his clarinet design. I'm left wondering why anyone would actually want to have teeth involved with a mouthpiece. (Okay, flame me if you must!)
Anyhow, I know the price of a new Lyrique might be steep for some. I too have a (much cheaper!) used auction site student clarinet (<$70) that continues to serve its purpose respectfully. And so I can attest to the fact that one doesn't NEED to have a Ridenour when starting out. Indeed, it's a luxury.
But I can also say that Tom's 576 has inspired me to press forward in my learning and has helped me make considerable progress with confidence.
The remaining obstacles I face are inherent in the musician ... not the instrument. My advice: If you can afford it, get one while you can.
[A note: I've also found Tom's ATG materials to be excellent. Sure, I've seen other (free) sources of guidance on reed adjustment. But the value of the ATG materials is reflected in the intellectual property (book/DVD), not in the sandpaper/glass/handle.
Thus far I've had just a single reed from several boxes of Rico Royals (3 strength) that I couldn't make enjoyably playable. Out of the box, they've been transformed from trashcan-worthy to controllable well-matched reeds for my RE-10 & 5RV-lyre mouthpieces. I can't imagine trying to play this instrument without learning how to adjust one's own reeds from the start.]
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Author: TomS
Date: 2021-02-07 19:33
OneWatt: If I could do it again, I'd try French embouchure. I might still. The oboe player in my WW quintet was a pretty good clarinet player, naturally played double lip, and his sound was, embarrassingly, better than mine. I understand that Benny Goodman, later in his life, studied with Reginald Kell and switched to double lip ... so even a seasoned pro can tweak his basics.
The big problem with French embouchure is that, no one teaches it in this part of the world, and marching band is King! Probably not the best idea during football season. And, you can't just take concert band in HS (at least 51 years ago) ... they couple marching band with the sit-down music program.
BTW, are you into audio gear? There is a company called "First Watt" that makes DIY hi-fi amplifier kits ... I home brew stuff, too ... but of my own design.
Well, we have joined the "576 Club", and have many members to support our notions of clarinet playability and affordability. Now, I also enjoy my other instruments as well, so maybe it's just the "newness factor" and enthusiastic first impressions that has partially fueled my appreciation of the Lyrique 576 .... but I suspect this clarinet will be in my top 2 favorites, even after the luster of new has faded.
Tom
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Author: OneWatt
Date: 2021-02-07 20:18
TomS: I don't mean to hijack your original subject line but will gladly respond to a few loose ends...
Yes, I'd read about Goodman having a late-life conversion to double-lip (along with others). The fact that many single-lip pros & teachers rely on double-lip for practice in order to promote better technique (and avoid biting pitfalls) spoke volumes to me as I set off into the vast unknown. Sure, it was frustrating for a bit, but if playing clarinet isn't frustrating at first then you're probably not doing it right. ;-)
[As for sitting next to another reed player and being humbled, in my case at this stage that wouldn't be saying much.]
Sorry, I've got no association with "First Watt." There's an inside joke to my "One Watt" handle I'll share privately - but if I post it openly on the internet it'll no longer be an inside joke, eh?
And finally back to the 576...
I've learned to be cynical regarding most internet-based marketing claims (haven't we all?) and so I approached the Ridenour Youtube/website content with healthy skepticism. It was Tom's earnest (if not goofy) approach, his professional background, and especially the reviews found here on this BB that had me "lower my guard." Fortunately enough, sometimes you stumble across the real deal if you do your homework.
Which brings me around once again to being thankful for this BB community. Having read through years of posts, I've continued to learn a great deal from the knowledge (and grumbles) shared here. Taking a chance on a Ridenour clarinet has been one of the tangible benefits I'm now enjoying while standing on the shoulders of others!
Best wishes - OneWatt
- - - - - - - - - -
Israel = Ancient Hebrew for "Wrestles with God"
Klarinet = Ancient Greek for "Struggles with Reeds"
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Author: Burt
Date: 2021-02-07 22:21
I bought a 576BE (like the BC, but has LH Ab/Eb key) used and was very pleased with the playability and the key mechanics. It plays better than my Buffet pre-R13. I sold the Buffet and bought a Libertas 5 years ago. I've been very pleased with the playability and mechanics of the Libertas.
The only downside for me is the plating. I must have a lot of acid in my skin, because I've corroded the plating on both instruments. Re-plating is quite expensive and would involve an otherwise-unnecessary overhaul.
Burt
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Author: TomS
Date: 2021-02-07 23:35
Once upon a time you could buy R13 clarinets with no plating. I'd rather they just left it off. The instrument doesn't play any better (maybe even worse) with plating. I've had the same issue with nickel plating on ALL my clarinets ... it wears off quickly. Better luck with silver plating. Of course, the sulphur content of hard rubber will tarnish silver quickly ... but so what? My silver plated ligatures tarnish and I like the look.
Think of a hard rubber clarinet with no black pigment in the rubber and rose gold plated keys! That would be cool.
Yeah, I have an early production Libertas as well as my recent 576. I don't know which I like better ... they are different. They have a different feel under the fingers. The Libertas is easier blowing, has more center, more flexibility and I like how easy the altissimo speaks. If our band conductor lost his mind and asked for me to play a solo, I'd probably use the Libertas. If I just needed to hide in the clarinet section or maybe play some polite chamber music, I might use the 576. It seems that the intonation is better on my 576 than the Libertas, but just might be my setup, voicing or whatever ...
I'd be interested to see/hear if the Libertas has had some incremental changes/improvements over the years ... might be worth getting a 2nd ...
I think the acoustical model of the 576 has been around for a while ... I understand that it first made it's debut as a Vito VSP, which was a wooden clarinet.
And, I believe, the Libertas is basically the acoustical model of the Leblanc Concerto/Opus.
Tom
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Author: OneWatt
Date: 2021-02-08 01:39
Re: nickel-plating getting tarnished ... yup, same here.
Acidic fingers? Probably. I do carefully wipe off the keys daily (or more) to no avail. I can already see early signs of tarnish in the expected spots after a few weeks. FWIW, I have the same issue (in the same spots) with my Akai EWI 4000s keys.
Then again, "losing luster" in well-played spots doesn't matter much (to me). Once an instrument feels/looks played it gains another pinch of personality.
But gentlemen, your Libertas chatter is intriguing. I see that a new Libertas runs about 2x the price of a 576. Is it even possible to be twice as pleased?
I'm also surprised to read you both own a Ridenour Libertas AND a Ridenour 576 ... which makes me curious as to respective your motivation(s) for both?
Perhaps I'll keep an eye out for a gently used one at some point. For now, I've got Koepsch etudes and a couple of whole tone scales to tackle.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2021-02-08 06:21
I have a Ridenour Speranza, which was a short lived student clarinet ... I think they ran into problems with the manufacturer(ing) ... it is similar acoustics to the 576. When I decided to upgrade to a real 576, the Libertas was out, and Tom/Ted talked me into buying their "flagship". At the time, the Libertas was a little less expensive, so that made it a non-brainer.
I occasionally still played my Speranza, and eventually knew I'd like to get it's big brother ... so, 7-years later, I did.
If I won a billion dollar lottery, I'd see if Tom would take on a partner and do the manufacturing on this side of the pond. But, I am afraid, even if a rich lunatic donated the cash for the tooling, the production machinery and rent and utilities for the factory, would move the price into the "big league". It's easy to machine the bodies, and maybe some (like Schreiber?) of the key work, but soldering, polishing, plating, cleaning, fitting the keys and adjusting it requires a lot of touch labor. Backun apparently has the same problem, as the Alpha, Beta and Protege has it's keys produced and fitted in Asia, I think ... the "Q" and more expensive clarinets are made entirely in Canada, and are as expensive as the Buffets, etc. (although higher workmanship than their French competition, IMHO). Hat's off to Backun for their quality control.
Tom
Post Edited (2021-02-08 07:31)
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2021-02-09 02:28
Regarding the corrosion on nickel plating caused by acidic skin. A way to prevent it I’ve heard of, though never used, is to coat the parts of the keys that get touched with clear nail varnish. You’d have to de-grease the keys first and the coating would need some maintenance. I’m not sure how you would coat the ring keys either.
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Author: OneWatt
Date: 2021-02-09 04:24
Per JTJC: "Regarding the corrosion on nickel plating caused by acidic skin. A way to prevent it I’ve heard of, though never used, is to coat the parts of the keys that get touched with clear nail varnish. You’d have to de-grease the keys first and the coating would need some maintenance. I’m not sure how you would coat the ring keys either."
I'd read about the coating trick also, but it came with the caveat that doing so can change the "feel" of the keys (stickier? slicker? other?) in a noticeable way. Not sure I'd want to risk changing the tactile experience in an unpredictable way for the sake of the appearance of keys that I don't look at while playing. ;-)
- - - - - - - - - -
Israel = Ancient Hebrew for "Wrestles with God"
Klarinet = Ancient Greek for "Struggles with Reeds"
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Author: TomS
Date: 2021-02-09 04:54
I had a Penzel Mueller Super Brillante (I am sure I misspelled this) in high school that had silver plating, and it all wore off and/or got pitted. I took the keys off and ground and brushed all the plating off, down to the base metal. Looked very different. I eventually took the clarinet to the shop have brown leather pads put on it because I was tired of replacing bladder pads (I guess I was murder on this instrument, but you played it year round, even in the snow, and I didn't take very good care of it ...) and the repairman said "Boy, what have you done to your clarinet?!! Have you been grinding on the keys?" "Uhhh ... kinda" But I didn't like this clarinet, as it was used and a weird brand when I got it from a going-out-of-business music store ...
I really wanted a Leblanc LL (beautiful) or a Selmer Series 10 (wonderful player) or even a Noblet or Normandy. But my parents wouldn't oblige. In those days, a top line clarinet was 400 bucks. Shoot, you could buy a Selmer Mark 6 Alto for 600 dollars.
My first new clarinet was an Evette-Schaffer (spelling?) E13, that I bought in 1981 for about 500 bucks, which was about 60% of retail, at the time. I hadn't played in 11 years, but that clarinet got me the principal position at the local university band.
Tom
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Author: TomS
Date: 2021-02-11 22:50
More testing ... I'm stuck at home with the pandemic and now, an ice storm ...
The M15 440Hz seem to tune the best on this instrument, for me, as far as my assortment of production MPs. It plays lower pitch, but with the supplied short barrel the tuning is on the mark. Amazing. Amazing. Reeds are still fairly soft #3 Evolution. As I remember though, I liked the M15 with VD blue-box (now all discarded or lost)
In addition, this is the only clarinet (other than some old Selmers) that, because of my wonky injured hands, doesn't demand raising the thumb rest and/or shaving the RH sliver key. It's because the RH pinky keys are stretched or further down the instrument, and doesn't cramp my hand, which usually causes stress and occasional bumping of the said sliver key. Before my old boss (now appropriately incarcerated) expanded my job description into more injurious activities, my hands could impressively sail thru clarinet passages with no problems, and on most clarinet key work ...
So, if the feel of your key work is not quite right, or you have problems bumping the RH sliver key, you might try the 576. I studied clarinet at local university for a semester in 2018, and we spent a good portion of each lesson on this problem, trying to mitigate it thru practice, rotating the instrument, exotic thumb rests, etc. on my R13-greenline. The solution is to change to an instrument with a different key geometry (and, IMHO, much better acoustical design).
Tom
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Author: OneWatt
Date: 2021-02-12 19:55
@ TomS
I definitely noticed the difference in lower RH pinky key placement between the Lyrique 576 and my LJ Hutchens student model. On the 576, the tips of the RH keys reach closer to the center, i.e., aren't tucked away quite as far to the right side of the clarinet.
This makes those particular keys easier to reach given my particular (normal sized) hand and flexibility. Comparing the two, the keys themselves appear to be the same size/shape (didn't measure, just a visual) so it seems to be placement, not key dimension/shape.
Then again, comparing just two different instances leaves many open questions as to how the 576 lower key placements compare to other popular clarinet key configurations in general. Would be curious if anyone can offer such observations.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2021-02-12 22:36
Yes, people, let's hear what you think about clarinet key geometry!
Well ... I dedicated a long yesterday to looking at several hundred reeds in storage, some of them over 20 years old. I cleaned them in anti-bacterial soapy water, rinsed, put them back in their holders, let them dry for a few hours with 72% humidity pack. Then I tested sample lots: Rico, Rico Royal, Reserve Classic, V12, V21, 56s, Laurie Mitchel, Blue Box, Pilgerstorfer Dolce ... etc. I used my M15s for testing ...
Results: I kept the V12s 3.5 and 3.5+. Trying to reduce clutter in my life, and at the age of 68, I donated the others to the fire pit outside ... I feel better. It's only forgotten money spent in the distant past ...
I haven't liked or used V12s in years, but with the M15 and the warmer-darker-more "hold" of the RCP576, I can use a brighter/lighter/more responsive reed and MP to increase the ping, but with the advantage of overall better playing setup.
Tom
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Author: Burt
Date: 2021-02-14 05:04
I have 2 clarinets to cover the possibility that one will be in the shop. The $500 I paid to buy and modify the 576BE was worth it. I don't use the LH Ab/Eb key. I like the key work, especially the register key.
I switched to Legere reeds about 8 years ago. I don't find them any better than a GOOD cane reed, and not all my Legeres will let me play above A6 consistently, but I've never had to perform a piece with any notes above A6. The Legeres play flat, so I use a 63mm barrel. My mp is a Vandoren M30.
Burt
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Author: TomS
Date: 2021-02-15 09:25
Ridenour had an unusual LH A-flat/E-flat key available for a while on the 576 ...
The more common placement seems to get in the way of some players ... so, his design tried a different approach ...
Tom
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