 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Dave
Date: 2001-07-09 01:35
Hi all. I passed up a golden opportunity about 15 years ago. At the time, I was a senior in HS and an aspiring clarinetist. I was in the All-State Honors orchestra and had music scholarship offers. This was all possible without much effort and I really feel like my life would be much different if my folks had invested in a good horn and professional instruction. To make a long story short, I did what mom and dad wanted me to do and did not pursue my clarinet playing beyond marching band in college. About 3 years ago, I picked up my horn again and starting playing in some community bands and pit orchestras. I love it and can't believe I set my horn down so long ago. I would really love to advance my clarinet playing as far as I can. I'm 33 yo now and I realize there are limits to what I can accomplish this late, but I'm also advancing past the community band level and don't know where to turn. I'm "too serious" for community band and need more challenge. Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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Author: ClarinetBoy
Date: 2001-07-09 02:15
Many clarinettists start their orchestral careers late. Don't fall into the trap of 'too old, too late". You should be able to achieve anything you want if you set goals and put your mind to it!
Ben
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-07-09 03:40
Without knowing your personal family & financial situation, it would be impossible to advise you. That is, I don't know if you are "financially set" & whether or not others depend upon you financially for whom you must continue to "bring home the bacon".
At the age of 33, you should be focusing on that which is PROBABLE of occurrence, avoiding anything the success of which would be remote.
I advise people on business undertakings all the time. Its my job to evaluate the pros & cons of success & the relative costs financially. Go slowly & seek counsel from music professionals in your area. Speak to other professionals in your area. Speak with a college guidance counselor.
I tell my daughter all the time that "all-state clarinetists are a dime a dozen". A real clarinet professional is NOT. But, the reality of a double major in college is a lot of pressure --- teaching full-time, teaching privately & performing for pay is THE future. What is the success rate? How willing are you to make the sacrifices?
We have very few Stoltzman's, Combs' & Antony Pay's ! The real comparison of clarinettists occurs when the BEST are brought together.
Best,
mw
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-07-09 05:04
Dave, one thing I omitted. You _DO_ sound as if you are very talented. If I were in your situation, I would probably seek out the very best college professor/performer within a day's drive, make an appointment to take a lesson, & see if you can get some advice after they hear you play.
Alos, try & be as objective as possible. It sounds like you are very lucky to have parents who love you. Don't focus so much on what might have been, focus on what will be.
Best,
mw
PS - you aren''t alone, I know someone who made All-State on a Vito borrowed from their high school.
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2001-07-09 13:50
I have to disagree with mw somewhat. Life isn't all about money. (OK, I realize he didn't say that, but he did emphasize the financial aspects of your decision.) It's possible to be rich and miserable as well as poor and happy. My mother always told me "I don't care if you grow up to be a ditch digger. I just want you to do something you enjoy."
Although I am not a ditch digger, I also have not ever pursued a career in music. From that perspective, I'd suggest seeing what it takes to enroll in a college music department or otherwise start taking lessons from a good professional. See where you can go from there, which may depend more on your determination than talent. Even if you aren't able to make a career from it, you may be able to find some more satisfying opportunities for playing. The main thing you may gain is the satisfaction of knowing that you tried and eliminating a big "what if" from your life.
At 33, you are still young, but you are more mature than the average college student and more likely to have the discipline to succeed. Good luck!
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Author: William
Date: 2001-07-09 13:54
MW's advice is good. I might add a couple of other ideas for you to consider. !) Seek out some local orchestras and participate in some auditions for one of their clarinet positions. 2) Form a Woodwind Quintet (flute, oboe, clarinet, horn and bassoon). Its a wonderful small ensemble that will give you hours of playing pleasure, not to mention a musical challenge. At 33 yrs of age, you still have a few good years ahead of you and much opportunity for personal improvement. At age 60, and recently retired, I am playing better than I ever have probably as a result of more regular daily practice. Another thought just came to mind--you are still young enough to join on of the military services and enjoy a career as a military musician. If they would take "mature enlistees," I would join up today!! Consider the thrill of becoming a clarinetist in The Presidents Own Marine Band. But, as MW suggested, being an "all-state" musician wouldn't necessarily qualify you for that wonderful band of virtuosic musicians. Get some advice from a local pro and go from there. You are not over the hill yet--because I have not found the creast yet and you are "way behind." Good Clarineting....but above all, enjoy!!!!!!!!
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Author: David
Date: 2001-07-09 15:12
Why don't you consider going to grad school and majoring in music education? You could teach younger students how to play and still play clarinet with them on occasions. That would be a wonderful thing, having a qualified musician who's made All-State before teach other students how to play. Maybe you could give lessons? It all depends on what you enjoy.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-07-09 16:43
Don said:
"I have to disagree with mw somewhat. Life isn't all about money. (OK, I realize he didn't say that, but he did emphasize the financial aspects of your decision.) It's possible to be rich and miserable as well as poor and happy."
------------------------------------------
I am afraid you really did misunderstand what I said/was saying. I didn't speak about getting rich or even being moderately successful (financially). NOT.
Because Dave, necessarily or for whatever reason (its really none of my business) didn't share the OTHER attributes to his life, making a recommendation is, indeed, very difficult.
For the record: **Money isn't happiness. However, the _LACK_ of money can make you downright miserable or bring misery or unhappiness to those who depend on you.**
Instead I was speaking to FINANCIAL OBLIGATIONS:
Food
Rent/House Payment
Medical bills & drugs
Paying (or helping to pay) the costs of those who rely on you
Car costs
Clothing
Loans & credit card payments
Taxes oif every kind
etc ad nauseum
MORE IMPORTANTLY
Its not so much that I was worried for "Dave" --- I was worried for those who might rely on Dave! I love my kids. If its their arm or mine, please take mine. I think everyone gets the point.
Best,
mw
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Author: Suzanne
Date: 2001-07-09 22:16
Although I did not start over at 33, I did start over after getting my first BA in Psychology and starting a Clinical Psych PhD program. When I was there in the psych program, I decided that music was really what I wanted to do, and so I dropped out and re-enrolled as the oldest freshman music major. I am a little behind everyone else, but I also have the maturity and discipline that I did not have at age 18. If you can financially handle it, why not go back and start over as a music major? The principal clarinetist in the Pacific Symphony (so California)started playing clarinet at age 21.
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Author: Irwin
Date: 2001-07-10 01:16
I'm a realist, so I tend to agree with MW. Lack of money can be a real drag. You ought to check out what professional musicians are paid. It's a disgrace how little they are paid relative to other professions. My teacher is a tenured player in the Florida Philharmonic. I don't know the specifics of his situation, but he's alluded to it. And I would guess that he wouldn't come close to keeping his current lifestyle (house in the suburbs with a stay at home wife and 2 young kids) on his salary alone - that's why he teaches.
As far as outgrowing your community band, perhaps you should look for another one that plays at a higher level. Mine plays some pretty challenging orchestral pieces (in addition to some of the easier marches and show tunes).
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-07-10 01:24
Suzanne, we probably shouldn't compare anybody to Jim Kanter, right? : ) Mr. Kanter is terrifbly talented; that is a gross understatement.
Irwin & others: If one can exist & handle all the necessities of life, I say go for it!
There is nothing worse I think than getting up on the wrong side of the bed for the rest of one's life, becuase your life's work leaves you empty, bores, you or worse yet, you hate or despise it.
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Author: graham
Date: 2001-07-10 08:39
The only thing I would add to the straight forwardly correct observations above is that the music business is also a contacts business. Hours of practising is one thing; hours hanging around in bars after other people's concerts and buttering up fixers may be another. The music business can be a scraping experience unless you are fabulously talented. People have had their enjoyment of music wrecked by a short stab at being professional. My view is that you should aim to do the very best you can as an amateur and use your current career to support that. If you turn out to be a remarkable amateur, you never know what might happen next. We all know what happened to Jack Brymer (who, by the way, was a good networker).
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-07-10 14:01
graham wrote:
>
> Hours of practising is one thing; hours
> hanging around in bars after other people's concerts and
> buttering up fixers may be another.
Just to remind people, the music business has no monopoly on this. It's active in all professions.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2001-07-10 15:22
Hi Dave,
I would be VERY careful before trying to endeavour a career as a musician.
If what you want to do is to play the clarinet professionally in an orchestra then you should know, that there are way too many good players for the number of positions.
It seems to me that your problem is the low quality of your community band. Look for more interesting ones, hook up with good piano players, take lessons, and give your own solo recitals as an amateur.
There is an infinite number of ways of enjoying playing without making it your everyday job. Universities are good places to hang out, there you will find many people willing to play and at a level that will most likely please you. There are just not enough jobs out there for musicians.
But if you feel playing the clarinet is really the path you have chosen for yourself, I can't stop you...
-Sylvain
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-07-10 17:56
As a side note, I thought I would share the following with you.
When at the Oklahoma Symposium this past June, 2001, I met & spent time with a famous Clarinet Pedagogue, David Weber.
David, at 87, is still going strong teaching/giving Clarinet lessons in NY. David is a man-for-all-seasons. He has _no_ master plan in his teaching, be it to concentrate on young people, or only to interact with the top players (interesting when you see the Who's Who of Mr. Weber's past students). David, is willing to work with any _aspiring_ clarinetist, Thus, David is in reach of most of us (imagine a private Master Class!),
David has a student from Houston, TX. A very, very wealthy Trial Lawyer, who flies to New York (just) to take lessons from David. The Lawyer's dream? He wants to play the "Mozart" (k. 622) with a (full, professional) Symphony Orchesta. [ David & his lawyer-student have (successfully) navigated through the first 2 movements, & are presently working on the Rondo. ]
When study is completed the Lawyer will perform the Mozart. Arrangements have been made for a large Symphony Orchestra to accompany the Lawyer. This has been a dream in the Lawyer's head for a long time. The Lawyer intends to invite, family friends, employees, business associates, & the local music community to his Solo appearance.
It's interesting ---- the way in which our minds work.
Best,
mw
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Author: Jean S.
Date: 2001-07-10 19:31
My community has a wonderful wind ensemble. The group is mostly made up of music teachers and other people with music degrees not working as musicians. They occasionally let in an exceptional young musician, expecially if they are playing something like a bassoon or bass clarinet, and they usually always have at least one young clarinet playing the third part. They get together once a week during the school year and put on three or four different concerts. The music they perform is challenging and fun. It is definitely much better than any of the community bands in the area. My son was able to play in the group for two years. They even had Frederick Fennell conduct one guest concert.
I always thought every community should have a group like this one. It provides a wonderful playing opportunity for music teachers and other adults that love music, but don't have the opportunity to play anymore. The only trouble with the group is that their are very few vacancies, since everyone that gets a position tends to stay forever. Maybe there are people in your community looking for a better group to play in. Wouldn't it be nice if you could organize a wind ensemble like this in your area?
-Jean
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Author: Anne-Marie
Date: 2001-07-10 19:33
And what happens after he has performed and boosted his ego?
May be he could just fly to Italy and play for the Pope!!!!
Sorry, but I have a hard time "feeling" any kind of respect or admiration for people like that : they use their money to pump their ego and try to elevate themselves anyway they can think of......
I wonder if he would have taken clarinet if he did not have all that money to satisfy big ego trip(s).
May be..... or may be not...... we will never know!
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-07-10 20:11
Anne-Marie -
I think we'll know when we read about him in the funny papers :]
- ron b -
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-07-10 21:08
Do we have to "fall" to comments about another person like this? Do we have to sit in judgement on another person? It was just a story. WHY?
No one was asking that anyone feel "admiration or respect" for this person. I don't know how we could come to the conclusion that the Lawyer was "using money to pump their ego". We don't know this person, yet we are pidgeon-holing him???
IMO, this is very petty.
PS - The Lawyer had played clarinet extensively through his school years. He, obviously, ended up taking "another path" for his career. For that reason, I thought the story had interest to the group.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-07-10 21:23
Having a bad day? There's no need to be "bitchy" about other people's good fortune whether it be musical or financial.
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Author: Suzanne
Date: 2001-07-10 22:04
Hey! I wasn't comparing anyone to Jim Kanter! I happen to know him (and his clarinetist wife), and he shared this information with me, and my point was, there ARE people who have become professional when starting late in the game. (And, of COURSE he's very talented!!!)
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-07-10 23:10
Suzanne, I meant no disrespect with my comment. Your point was well taken. mw
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Author: Anne-Marie
Date: 2001-07-11 15:56
Hello!
I was not having a bad day and was not bitching when I posted my message : everybody is entitled to his own opinion.
We all have our own values and live according to them..... or try to live according to them. Personally, I do not relate to people using money to "buy" any kind of "priviledge". A lot of very good and talented clarinetists would like to have the same opportunity as this person has, but they have to work and compete equally with others since they do not have the same financial situation.
I try as much as I can to focus on what is really essential in life and where to find true happiness : beeing that kind of person, I admire struggling musicians who spend their life living on small incomes because their focus is on doing what they love.
We all make our own decisions in life and if money and glamour make some people happy, good for them if they can achieve that goal.
I just don't relate to that at all....... and find that everbody should have equal opportunities...... unfortunately, money makes to often a big difference in the outcomes of life, not just in music....
Have a smiling day :-)
Anne-Marie
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-07-11 15:58
Someone who says "May be he could just fly to Italy and play for the Pope!!!!" isn't being jealous & bitchy? Yeah, right.
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Author: Anne-Marie
Date: 2001-07-11 16:26
You are judging me.......
I was beeing ironic..... and not because I am jealous or bitchy..
Maybe because English is my second language , I find it hard sometimes to find the right way to express what I want to communicate.
I apoligize if I have offended anybody with my comments and for also wasting other people's time on "talking" about something that is so personal to everybody : values. I do respect other's people opinion and I did not realize that I coud really stir up "opinions" like that : I just thought that since I do not mind myself that people can tell this BB about stories they find nice that I could also express how I see things and even if my opinion differs from theirs it's ok and we will all respect each other's opinion.
From now on, I will be careful about my comments....
Again, I apologize for all that.....
Anne-Marie :-)
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Author: David
Date: 2001-07-11 18:15
Mark and Anne-Marie,
Let's calm things down!! We're all jumping to conclusions here! Judgement, when well-placed, can be a very good thing. I must admit, It was rather jealous, but I didn't give myself the opportunity to put it so nicely blunt as "bitchy". ("Bitchy"? Whoever came up with that way of putting it?) And I believe that everyone here needs to be more careful about hurting everyone else's feelings.
Dave,
I'm still saying go for grad school.
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