 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: crvsp
Date: 2020-10-23 04:10
Hi everyone, I'm sure you've seen me post a few times on this forum and I figured I would ask for some words of advice on my tone quality. I've played for a number of years, and I noticed that overall my tone quality hasn't changed all that much but my technique and musicality has. Is my tone quality just something that is completely unique to me (i.e shape of oral cavity)? I'm not sure I like my own tone because I feel as though it's too thin, and I've tried harder reeds but fighting with the reed to get a sound out is too much of a hassle. Any words of advice?
https://youtu.be/n_dx_Z_hibY
https://youtu.be/LBPOuNOTbuI
Post Edited (2020-10-23 04:14)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-10-23 04:33
I'd suggest finding a way to increase the volume level of your recordings, and then record something longer - part of an etude or, at least, more of the Saint-Saens than you've given us.
Karl
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Author: crvsp
Date: 2020-10-23 04:57
https://youtu.be/6iyeK6pmCZ4
Here's a little longer version of the saint saens; don't know how much louder I can get it. I think windows is restricting the volume.
https://youtu.be/q3wb5yop2eE
Here's rose 6; not the best take but it'll do for listening purposes
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-10-23 14:11
You have a good basic sound. I really liked the sound in the first clips. The only thing I picked up in those is that as your dynamic level drops the resonance of the notes drops too. I'd say you need to maintain more of the air pressure behind the note then you do at lower dynamics.
I have advocated a long tone exercise that I got from Clark Brody many years ago (principal clarinet under Reiner through Solti in the Chicago Symphony):
Start a low "E" from nothing. You do this by starting with your embouchure actually too soft and bring it in until you just catch the note, a mere whisper. THEN you crescendo at a SLOW tempo (about 50 beats per minute) evenly one beat at a time until you reach the loudest you can play (literally) at the count of EIGHT. THEN you diminuendo evenly on each count down from there from eight back down to zero............and you do all that (from just grabbing the note) IN ONE BREATH. So that's 16 counts from nothing, to LOUDEST and back to nothing in one breath.
Pitch may be wonky but that's not the point. The point is to have a centered, rich resonant sound throughout the intoned sound.
The full exercise is to do that twice on "E," twice on "F," twice on "F#" and twice on "G." Once you've completed that, you should feel like you've run around the block. You should also notice more control over your sound and feel ready to tackle a day of practice.
Try that out for a week and see if that helps.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-10-23 21:15
I'd agree with Paul - the sound I can hear is clear and clean. I wouldn't describe it as thin. I guess your own perception depends a little on what you're comparing it to. Keep in mind, too, that what you hear isn't what others hear. Is your own self-assessment (thin) based on what you hear in these recordings or what you hear in real time as you play?
If using a harder reed means fighting it to get a sound, then harder reeds aren't an advantage.
On the topic of dynamics, I can't tell from these recordings what range you're capable of - it all sounds mezzo-something or less when played back on my computer. If you feel limited at the loud end of the range, that might be something to work on, but you'll have to judge that for yourself or with the help of a teacher who can hear you in person.
Karl
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Author: rtaylor
Date: 2020-10-23 22:57
All good points by Paul and Karl.
I would add that I see what seems to be some tension in your fingers and forearm.
I took lessons from Keith Stein for a while and one of his main focus points was eliminating tension. Especially in the right arm and elbow.
Your fingers on the left hand break in the knuckle just before the tone hole. This is a common thing with my students. I also see the finger tips being some what white in color when you cover the tone hole. These are common signs of tension. Try using the tennis ball type finger curve to approach the instrument and not let the finger tips collapse at the first knuckle. Also relax the whole arm it your side before you bring it up to the clarinet.
Tension anywhere can affect the tone. It's subtle but it will make an improvement in your over all playing.
Cheers,
Robert
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2020-10-24 17:11
Yes, you have your own tone just like singers have theirs but with proper training a singer can enhance theirs. I've found from years of teaching and working with many fine clarinet players and teachers it's possible to "slightly" change your tone but it takes a great deal of dedication. I've found one of the first things you have to do, assuming you're playing properly already, decent air stream, not choking, tongue position not interfering with the air passage, decent embouchure etc. is finding the right combination of equipment, mouthpiece reed combination, that gives you a slightly different tone to your satisfaction and than work at getting used to it. Most players eventually end up with the same sound as before because they don't work hard enough at getting comfortable with their new set up.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2020-10-24 17:14)
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Author: crvsp
Date: 2020-10-24 20:42
Thank you all for the great advice! It'll help me a lot. Mr. Aviles; I tried that long tone excercise the other day, it really helped with getting comfortable before I started working on rep.
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Author: EbClarinet
Date: 2020-10-26 06:18
I have waited almost a week b4 answering your initial post. I've heard your tone and I don't think there's any thing wrong with it. R u a high school or college player? R u taking lessons? What's your set up? WHICH tone (of the many tones) r you trying 2 get? Superb tone quality is developed over a long time.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/mbtldsongministry/
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Author: crvsp
Date: 2020-10-26 07:19
I'm currently a high school player taking lessons. I'm using an R13 Bb and a Tosca A, and a Vandoren BD5 with V12 3.5+. I'm mainly trying to get a more darker tone, or in other words, trying to accentuate the low end of the sound spectrum. Right now I'd say more of the upper/middle portion of the sound spectrum is coming through, but I feel like I'm lacking in the lower middle section which gives more resonance and a fuller sound.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-10-26 16:16
Don't miss the advantage of the upper partials. They are key to a sound that projects across the ensemble and through the hall. Think of the diminutive oboe that pretty much can be heard.........no matter what.
What is purely self satisfying within your bubble space is not always (never is?) what is professionally necessary.
It's really tough right now (with COVID) but once you have the opportunity to interact (rehearse) with colleagues, start asking those whose opinions you trust to tell you what is working (and not working) at a distance.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-10-26 17:32
crvsp wrote:
> I'm currently a high school player taking lessons.
Just out of curiosity, are you taking lessons in person or virtually?
> I'm
> mainly trying to get a more darker tone, or in other words,
> trying to accentuate the low end of the sound spectrum. Right
> now I'd say more of the upper/middle portion of the sound
> spectrum is coming through, but I feel like I'm lacking in the
> lower middle section which gives more resonance and a fuller
> sound.
Unless you're practicing with a sound analyzer and can actually see the overtone distribution your sound contains, you really don't know any of this. "I feel like" doesn't really go with this kind of analytic precision. You're better off, in trying to describe what you want, to find a player whose sound you want to emulate and then just say "I want to sound more like [insert player's name] and I hear myself now as sounding more like [insert another player's name]."
To many people, "dark" is synonymous with "dull," while to others it means "rich" or "round." But these words and others like them are (maybe) meaningful to you and don't communicate to others with any real precision what you mean.
Since no one here has so far found much if anything negative to say about your examples, you're pretty much on your own to look for ways to come closer to the ideal you have in your ear. Your teacher, if he or she is sympathetic to what you want, may be able to make suggestions, but ultimately once you've got the fundamentals of efficient tone production down, realizing your own concept is your own task to accomplish. You need to try various adjustments to your approach to see what moves you closer and what doesn't.
Do some online research to try to find out what equipment the players you want to emulate use and, if you can, try to get your hands on the same equipment - at least mouthpiece and reeds. See if these players have masterclasses or instructional videos online (YouTube, the equipment manufacturers' websites, etc.).
Always keep in mind, though, that you don't hear what others do when you play.
Karl
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Author: crvsp
Date: 2020-10-26 18:44
kdk wrote:
> Just out of curiosity, are you taking lessons in person or
> virtually?
Right now I'm taking virtual lessons.
So based on what everyone has said, it's just my ear
Also, not related to this topic but on another topic I wrote 2 days ago; I got a 2nd BD5 and I'm already much closer to the tone I wanted. Funny how just a change in mouthpiece could have such a difference!
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-10-26 19:23
It might be interesting for you to get someone to listen to you (in person, preferably) while you play each mouthpiece to compare them. The point would be to find out if the difference is one that other people can hear.
Karl
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Author: mihalis
Date: 2020-10-29 10:02
As I understand it, you don't seem to like your sound that much, because what
you hear isn't what others hear. I suggest, try to play with a pair of flat sound
studio headphones. I have two pairs Audio Technica ATH-M20x and M60x monitor. I plug it on a Zoom H2 in Active position, and I get a pretty good
idea how I sound like. By the way, you sound nice to me.
Mike.
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2020-10-29 13:35
I would develop Paul Aviles' sound excersise like this. Add to the low note it's twelfth, so play e cresc dim b' cresc dim as slowly as you can. Further, play two excersises with one breath taking the previous top note as new bottom note: e-b'-b-f#''. Little by little you can add rehearsals in chain. It's possible to play all 12 excersises with one breath! Of course the cresc-dim is then superfast, but that is skill you will need too.
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
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