 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Quinn
Date: 2020-10-01 20:32
Hi! I was wondering what your thoughts are on the Gigliotti ligature, or even if ligatures make a difference?
Cheers! Quinn
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Author: marcia
Date: 2020-10-01 21:43
Again--here is one opinion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAqL1nVQfFs
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Author: kdk
Date: 2020-10-01 22:13
Back in the 1970s and '80s, when Gigliotti was monitoring production of his signature products, they were decent ligatures with one (IMO) serious flaw - the thumb-turns on the plastic screws had a tendency to shear off of the threaded part if you didn't keep the screw threads lubricated and you overtightened the ligature even a little.
I have no idea who is now making or distributing them - assuming it isn't someone selling off old stock, and I don't have any idea of the quality today if they are being currently produced. Many other ligatures have come on the market since Gigliotti designed his ligatures (which, BTW, like his mouthpieces, he himself actually used), and I'd be inclined to try other more recent designs.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-10-01 23:19
Funny you should ask.
Of late I have found that plastic ligatures provide an INCREDIBLY higher resonance and volume to the sound when using Legere reeds......particularly the Legere European Signature reeds. I cannot be certain exactly why that is, but ANY plastic ligature will give you an obvious improvement (Robert Vinson, Gigliotti, Luyben).
I have abandoned cane reeds five years ago so I cannot speak to what it does for cane if anything, but there are adherents of the Gigliotti that preferred their performance back when they were still made.
If you tear the threading (referred to above) it is easy to use 6-32 thread, 1" long hex nut screws, paired with 6-32 nylon knurled thumb nuts (found 10 piece on Ebay for $8.00). I did finally glue the hex nuts in place to keep them from spinning........works GREAT!!!!
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-10-02 05:54
Removing the center is an interesting modification. Though with plastic reeds the operative word is "slippery." So less contact is probably not going to work well with Legere (Quinn never mentioned plastic reeds though).
Also, I invert the inverted Gigliotti so that it closes OVER the reed (not the other way around).
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2020-10-02 17:14
I used his ligature many years ago when it came out and at first really liked it. At the time there were maybe only about 10 ligatures to try :-), now there's dozens and dozens. Truth in humor. At first I really liked it but found it made my altissimo register a bit brighter than others and the screw did tear the threads and I had to replace it and be careful not to make it too tight. In any case I believe I used one for about a year or two, can't remember what I changed to at the time. There's been many comments of whether a ligature makes a difference or not, it's personal. My belief is yes they do but much much less than the mouthpiece and reed. I think it makes much more difference to the feel, response and ear of the player than it does to the listener but with the perfect combination of equipment it may make a slight difference to the listener in my opinion as well. People will have difference opinions of course. If it does make a positive difference to the player the player will feel more comfortable so that's a positive.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2020-10-02 19:15
Paul,
I have never had a problem with using Legere' reeds with my modified Gigliotti. In fact, it is in my case as the backup to my VD Optimum ligature. I am careful about tightening it.
An original Luyben is still in my case as well. I got it in about 1970 and suggested that all my students use them if they were making a ligature change.
HRL
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2023-04-04 00:49
excited-just scored a giglioti tenor sax lig which will fit my alto clarinet! cant wait to try it out. i replace the plastic screws with high quality machine screws from ace hardware using acorn nuts to tighten the whole thing onto the mpc. this fixes stripped threads and broken plastic screws common on these with a few years/ miles on them
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-04-04 03:29
If you ever do find a problem with the threading on the inside of the ligature, you can substitute something like a hex cap screw and knurled nut arrangement.
………Paul Aviles
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2023-04-04 04:00
exactly what i did paul. knobs i used are gold and look great against the black
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-04-04 16:13
Would it be okay to ask how experienced Quinn is as a player, and whether (s)he has a teacher, and good equipment, in a good state of repair?
I went down this route of worrying about ligatures a year or so ago. After a lot of really helpful discussion with Paul over email, it became clear that my problem was basically *everything* other than the ligature.
I wondered if it might be good to ask what the background situation is?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-04-05 05:01
jig-lee-OT-ee (OT as in tot)
I've heard some folks intone the initial G as a French J as in jeux
................Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk
Date: 2023-04-05 06:23
Paul Aviles wrote:
>
>
> jig-lee-OT-ee (OT as in tot)
>
>
Well, no, not exactly. He didn't pronounce the 2nd 'g' explicitly, so it was more Gul-yOT-tee and the OT was more closed than "tot" - somewhere between that and "uh" - there's probably a phonetic symbol for it - maybe a "schwa." His son Mark, who is the Philadelphia Orchestra's co-principal bassoonist, pronounces it as his father did.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-04-06 19:44
Thanks Karl!
Those of us farther out of Philly didn’t have the benefit of a primary source.
………..Paul Aviles
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2023-04-07 03:24
lig is here. i have never seen a lig with so little actual contact with the body of the mpc. i will report after i play the alto clarinet on tuesday at rehearsal
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2023-04-13 01:00
played the alto with the gigilliotti for several hrs at rehearsal last night. fantastic is the verdict. its as free blowing as a rovner with out the loss of high partials like with a rovner. articulates execellent -fast and clean. . there is something about pauls theory that plastic ligs are best with plastic reeds. the gigliotti preformed best yet. i have tried all i could get my hands on except the luybin as its only for Bb clarinet . those of you who want to try this combo-look for a tenor sax gigilittoi lig-its fits alto clarinet perfect-should fit basset horn also
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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2023-04-16 18:25
In plastic ligatures yes, I haven't seen less mpc contact than Gigliotti. But why only plastic ligatures?
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-04-16 19:02
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Hi super20dan,
I had a little go at 3D printing a ligature a little while back and it wasn't that difficult. I wondered if you would like to see?
It's possible to print carbon fibre composite materials on a normal home 3D printer, so you could make your own one if you wanted to. This one that I did was just PLA which is a plastic composite.
I fixed it together with the screw from my Rovner Dark.
I thought it was an interesting experiment because it only cost a few pence (cents) to print the ligature. In the hands of someone really experienced like you, then a printer like this could be made to print something that really fits what you want.
It's just a thought, and if it's daft, please do just ignore it.
I'm totally happy with my Rovner Dark and just did this for fun really. My playing is not advance enough to need to fine tune the choice of ligature.
Jen
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-04-16 19:31
Adult learner, Grade 3
Equipment: Yamaha Custom CX Bb, Fobes 10K CF mp,
Legere Bb clarinet European Cut #2.5, Vandoren Optimum German Lig.
Post Edited (2023-04-16 19:32)
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2023-04-18 01:30
thats very cool looking sunny dz. these 3d /homemade ligs are rising in popularity it seems. should be extremly free blowing from the looks of it. jim-why plastic you ask? i am participating in a experiment with paul in that plastic reeds preform better in use with a plastic ligature. so we have been trying them out and reporting results here.
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Author: smokindok
Date: 2023-04-18 01:48
SunnyDaze wrote:
>
> I had a little go at 3D printing a ligature a little while back
> and it wasn't that difficult. I wondered if you would like to
> see?
> …….
>
> Jen
That looks really nice, Jen! What CAD software did you use to create the model? Getting to a useable STL file has been an insurmountable stumbling block for me, for anything but the most basic things.
John
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-04-18 08:44
Hi John,
I'm really glad you like it. I used 3Dbuilder which comes free with windows, and also prusa slicer which came with the printer. This design wasn't too hard because it is just a flat rectangle.
I had to make a lot of them at different thicknesses to find one that was soft enough to bend round the mp but hard enough to do the job. It was a bit slippy on the mp.
I think the making one that is thick, and shaped to the mp would be harder, but maybe possibly if someone really wanted to. I didn't brave it myself. LOL!
I attached the files and screenshots so you can see, and maybe use the files if you would like to.
Thanks!
Jennifer
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-04-18 08:46
Attachment: prusa slicer.png (372k)
Attachment: Screenshot 2023-04-18 053709.png (351k)
Hi John,
I'm really glad you like it. I used 3Dbuilder which comes free with windows, and also prusa slicer which came with the printer. This design wasn't too hard because it is just a flat rectangle.
I had to make a lot of them at different thicknesses to find one that was soft enough to bend round the mp but hard enough to do the job. It was a bit slippy on the mp.
I think the making one that is thick, and shaped to the mp would be harder, but maybe possibly if someone really wanted to. I didn't brave it myself. LOL!
I attached the screenshots so you can see. If you would like the files I'd be really happy to send them over. I can't attach them here because the forum doesn't take those file formats.
Thanks!
Jennifer
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Author: smokindok
Date: 2023-04-21 07:13
Thanks for the info, Jen, and the kind offer to share your files. My printer needs some maintenance work, and with too many other projects taking priority, I won’t get to it for a while. When I do, I may get back to you, if I am still having design problems.
John
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