 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2020-08-31 21:17
I had some thoughts about re-stating the often used phrase “finding your own sound” - not with reference to anything in the forum, just in general.
When I was a student I always thought the idea of “finding your own sound” was kind of odd. When I listened to a recording of myself, all I could ever hear was ME, and I didn’t like it too much. LOL. I felt like Bill The Cat - “Ack!” I spent a lot of time trying to get ME out of the sound. I wanted to hear the music. I figured if I were brilliant and wonderful, it would be great to have my own sound.
It seemed to me that great artists didn’t become great by starting out with a blank slate, but learned by borrowing from others. They couldn’t help sounding like themselves, because they already had a voice, but their sound came in part came from their choice of models. It’s just like natural speech, you can tell if someone comes from New Orleans or New York. It’s not “original”, but it’s part of who they are.
I’ve slowly begun to understand the proverb, “Know thyself.” I think this is what is meant by “finding your own sound”. It’s not theoretical, not even in a sense “creative”, it’s just being honest. Being who you are, genuinely and completely, is something I imagine does not come easily to many young people, who are always trying to be like someone else, or to appear attractive to someone else. The difficulty isn’t so much that they have models, it’s the choice of models. They don’t always know which are the best ones for them. There is a lot of pressure to know or emulate certain players, and they may be great, or even the best, but not always the most helpful for a particular student. (I have jazz musicians in mind, but it’s generally applicable. It’s probably better now than when I was a student.)
I used to have very definite “original” ideas about what I wanted in my sound, but those very ideas sometimes held me back.
- Matthew Simington
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-08-31 21:34
I heard an interesting musing from Billy Joel on his "Billy Joel Channel" courtesy of XM Radio. He spoke about looking to emulate certain singers he liked (not specific songs mind you) as an inspiration for songs he was writing. One song was inspired by the vocal stylings of Gordon Lightfoot, while another by the Righteous Brothers. He actually did make his vocals lean in those directions (vibrato; emphasis) but he was, of course, still Billy Joel.
So there is nothing wrong with trying to sound like "so-and-so." It gives us a paradigm; a goal.
And when/if you decide to do a few things differently than your muse.........all the better.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-08-31 22:36
Matt74 wrote:
> Being who you are,
> genuinely and completely, is something I imagine does not come
> easily to many young people, who are always trying to be like
> someone else, or to appear attractive to someone else. The
> difficulty isn’t so much that they have models, it’s the
> choice of models. They don’t always know which are the best
> ones for them. There is a lot of pressure to know or emulate
> certain players, and they may be great, or even the best, but
> not always the most helpful for a particular student.
What you say about having models is, I think, undeniable. But I'm not sure I agree that the choice of models is the real difficulty unless you limit the discussion to a fairly narrow range of musically inexperienced and immature students. The idea that there is a "best" model for any individual is, I think, wrong to begin with. The musicians I grew up with were all following all the same stages I was of imitating and consciously emulating specific established, even "great" players. And, usually unconsciously but sometimes very deliberately, they were also discarding the influences that turned out to be limiting or not supportive of their own needs as musicians. We almost all start out trying to sound and play like the teachers we admire. But along the way of our development, other influences intrude and expand our range. I think we have a natural tendency to ignore the ones that don't support our own success, that get in the way of our own musical needs. There are certainly players who get stuck in one musical rut because it's the way (or they think it's the way) so-and-so plays, regardless of objective reasons why that choice isn't constructive. But players, as they age and become more self-aware, I think begin to self-select the things that "work" - that support their success, in the process discarding things and ideas that don't. It's that process that produces the player's "own sound" and way of doing things. One trouble is that the process can take a long time and requires for a reasonable degree of openness.
BTW, I think the process (and student-hood itself) doesn't, or doesn't need, ever to end. There is always something new to discover and understand that can move each us in sometimes unexpected directions.
>
> I used to have very definite “original” ideas about what I
> wanted in my sound, but those very ideas sometimes held me
> back.
>
IMO (not having known you back then) I suspect those "original" ideas were not original at all, and that realizing they held you back eventually led you to move on from them.
Karl
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-09-01 01:01
Everyone's sound is different, but to what degree? I think it varies quite a bit more with jazz players than with classical ones. Classical clarinetists may refer to the "dark" sound vs. the "bright" one. One country or area may differ from another as to what the preferred sound is.
With jazz you have more variety. One obvious aspect is amount (and type?) of vibrato. With classical there may be players who use vibrato, but the majority don't, and that vibrato may be very slight.
My first (well second, not counting private lessons in elementary school) private teacher in HS said that the best way is to take things from everyone you study with and form your own style of playing--I assume he included "sound" as part of that.
I agree that we try to emulate people, especially when we are young.
Later on, changes in one's sound and general approach to playing are way more subtle.
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Post Edited (2020-09-01 01:03)
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Author: rtaylor
Date: 2020-09-01 01:21
I had an insightful teacher early in my undergrad studies. He always said to listen to as many players as possible from Gervase de Peyer to Karl Leister to Aker Bilk.
He then went on to say choose what things you like in great players and incorporate those ideas in your own playing. Hence making you a conglomeration of your listening experiences. In the end you become your own player with elements potentially from great players.
Cheers,
Robert
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-09-01 01:24
If you listen to a lot of classical recordings you can pick up the differences amongst classical clarinet players pretty well. Back in the '80s I could almost always determine which orchestra I was listening to on the radio based on the clarinet soli within a given piece.
When I try that these days not so much. But I don't listen to music for pleasure much anymore either. Sort of a vocational hazard.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Clarinetpower
Date: 2020-09-01 02:21
From my point of view looking for your sound isnt just a sound produced. I think It has more important things to considerate just to make music in capital leters. I'm taking about musicality and to find your way to share emotions.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2020-09-01 17:34
When I studied with Leon Russianoff I asked him who I should try to sound like, he answered like Eddie Palanker. Great vocalists are born with their voice. They can develope it to the highest quality possible with training but they can't change their vocal chords. Us clarinet players have an advantage of having both internal limits that we can also develop to their hightes quality, breathing, throat, tongue postion etc but we also depend a lot on external products, mouthpiece, reeds, etc. as well. Of course as we grow we have to have an idea of what we want to sound like so we can develope "our own sound" but trying to sound exactly like someone else is a loosing battle. How many players do you know that sound just like Marcellus, Gennusa, Wright, etc.
I've always use the term, "inner voice". You have to know what you want to sound like when you play and once you achieve it work towards keeping it. I've heard and taught many players that managed to "change" their sound with equipment only to end up sounding like they did before because most players just have a "natural" sound like a singer so you have to keep the sound you developed in your "inner ear" and keep working at keeping it and not get lazy.
I changed mouthpiece searching for "my sound" as a student probably 6-8 times and in my over 50 years as a pro only once on bass clarinet and 3-4 times on regular clarinet. My concept would change slightly over the years so I've always strived to find my voice in my "inner ear".
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: rmk54
Date: 2020-09-01 18:44
How many players do you know that sound just like Marcellus, Gennusa, Wright, etc.
---------------------------------------
Ed, you may remember those great parties Russianoff used to have at his home in Greenvale.
Once he played a (taped) recording of Shepherd on the Rock and asked us to guess who was performing. At first we thought Marcellus, then Wright,then Marcellus again, but could not come to a conclusion.
It was (of course!) Stanley Drucker.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2020-09-02 16:07
RMK54, no, I didn't know about the parties at Greenvale, never even heard of them. Before or after me? I believe he lived in Manhattan when I studied with him. My point about sounding like those I mentioned, and others, was that everyone has their own sound and just because a person may study with someone, use the same equipment, do what they do, it's unlikely they will sound just like that person. I have great respect for Drucker, one of the greats, but I would never consider his tone to be like that of those I mentioned. I heard Drucker play a great many times and if someone asked me to describe his tone I could only say, on which day. I think judging a players tone from a recording, even a live recording is very unreliable. So much depends on the equipment used, the room it was recorded in, the recording tech and how much vib is added to the recording. I've only done a few commercial recordings in my life, many live recordings, and of course BSO recordings. I know how much difference all that makes.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2020-09-03 00:55
I like “inner voice”, because it refers to what’s already present inside the person, rather than ideas about how one “should” or “wants” to sound.
You can think, “I want to be this way”, when it might actually suit you better to be “that way”. This can be confirmed by listening to just any recent pop recording, especially when autotune is involved. Ugh.
**Let me ask this: If it seems, more or less, that everyone tends to sound like themselves anyhow, how do you help them to become the best version of themselves (or at least a better one)?
I had a few experiences where I either heard, or was directed, to a recording that transformed the way I thought of a piece - and music, including recordings of players that I wasn’t instinctively attracted to. Ex: Mule, Tableau des Provinces, Des Alyscampes. One of my teachers marked some accents for Pierne’s “Canzonetta” which opened up a whole new world to me.
I love Dean Martin, but I think it’s funny because no matter what song he’s singing - it’s always the same song... It’s easy to get stuck in a rut. I once exasperated an art teacher. She wanted us to do an ink drawing with sticks we found outside - I think to get us out of a rut and find new things, etc... The first thing I did was sharpen it like a pen nib.
- Matthew Simington
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-09-03 04:11
I'll let the slight to Dean Martin slide as long as you stay away from criticizing Frank Sinatra (circa 1955).
:-)
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2020-09-03 21:25
I liked Dean Martin, he had a pleasant voice. Yea, Frank too.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: EbClarinet
Date: 2020-09-05 03:56
This original post is about tone quality. The original post(er) is after the jazz clarinet tone quality NOT the dark conservative tone quality that polished professional clarinetists have.
I'm not wanting that jazz clarinet tone quality so I may b of little help with this post. Having a professional clarinet, mouth piece, reed and ligature would b the 1st thing 2 acquire. Once u have that, then begin your quest with jazz clarinet.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/mbtldsongministry/
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