 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-08-30 12:35
Hi,
I've been doing some tests to see which of the various microphones that I have access to are best at recording my clarinet, so that I can use one of them for an ABRSM performance exam later in the year. Apparently we can send video now rather than appearing in person.
I figure that since so many of us are sending music through digital means these days, this might be of interest to other non-professionals like myself, who have limited access to audio recording kit.
I tried two cameras (Canon 5D MkII DSLR and Canon Powershot SX210 IS), a webcam (Logitech 1080p) and a USB conference microphone (Jabra speak 410).
The cameras recorded in MOV format and the films were uploaded directly to Youtube.
The microphones were recorded using Adobe CS3 Soundbooth on a windows PC and saved in WAV format. These two were then amalgamated into a single video in Windows Movie maker, saved out as mp4 and uploaded to youtube.
For an actual performance exam, no processing is allowed, so I would need to find a way to use the microphones to record video and sound together and save directly to a single file.
The ABRSM recommends using things like a smartphone or tablet, but I don't have either of those, so haven't tested them for comparison. I'd be interested to see other people's uploads from those devices for comparison if anyone would like to join in.
The webcam sounds best to me at low pitches but cracks up wildly on the high notes. The conference microphone was not so good overall, I thought, but did at least capture all of the notes.
I think maybe the powershot sounds a bit nicer than the DSLR but I'm not sure what I'm meant to be looking for tbh. Maybe the DSLR is more honest, while the powershot is smoothing things out and making them sound better than they are?
These are my videos:
Webcam and conference microphone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYDxamE-jRg
Canon Powershot SX210 IS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO7hmITbYUE
Canon 5D MkII DSLR:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FYnD6ZZ8Z4
Apologies in advance for the uninspired clarinet playing. I did my Grade 5 theory exam online a couple of days ago and I am not very lively at all today. :-)
Any opinions on the different microphones from people with more finely tuned ears than mine would be gratefully received. :-)
Thanks!
Jen
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Author: Maruja
Date: 2020-08-30 13:16
Gosh - that sounded super complicated! I am also in the UK and was thinking about doing one of the ABRSM exams via video so glad to see that you are thinking about it too. I have uploaded a couple of videos for the ABRSM 'orchestras' and I did it just with my Samsung smart phone - just press video and go! And I must say that I thought the quality was very good. As the file is quite long it allows you to 'trim' it in order to send it via email. None of the people to whom I send the different recordings said they couldn't open it. As I would be doing one of the higher exams and the video would be correspondingly longer I don't know if that would be too much to trim. I need to have a go, I suppose, if I want to go down that route. The beauty is, of course, that you can have innumerable attempts and nerves shouldn't be too much of a problem (which is what got me last time!)
Maruja
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-08-30 13:56
Hi Maruja,
That's great that you are having a go too. I'd be really interested to see one of your videos if you didn't mind. I don't have a smartphone as I don't get on with LED backlit screens (they give me headaches), but I'd be very interested to see what the results are like.
How did you get involved with an ABRSM orchestra? That sounds fun.
Jen
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-08-30 14:43
What you had problems with in the first two was distortion and compression. It's probably not worth even trying to get around the distortion (too much sound going into the microphone (and or the rest of the associated electronics) though recording much further away from the mics in those case will help A LOT!!!! The compression is part of the system, particularly with the conference mic. The conference mics job is to get a clear representation of the spoken word (usually a minimalist job for a mic/electronics). So it compresses the heck out of the signal to even out disparities in volume........NOT good for music.
That was some of the trouble with the DSLR and you'd probably pick that up when you record musical selections and wonder where your dynamics went.
The best representation was the Powershot sound. You can even hear more ambience (all the other sounds in the room) in that recording. Still I'd say you're way too close to the mic (just a few feet away). Try that at about ten feet for comparison and use some music with dynamics to check to make sure the electronics (or settings) are not taking those differences in volume away from the performance.
................Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2020-08-30 15:11)
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Author: Maruja
Date: 2020-08-30 15:11
Sunny Daze,
If you send me your email address, I would be glad to send you a copy of the video I made for an on line choir (not singing, I hasten to add!). I don't especially want to publish it on the Bboard for all those wonderful musicians to listen to! Re. the on line orchestras, I am not sure if they are doing them now, but during lockdown, ABRSM had at least one of those orchestras where anyone can contribute and they splice it all together at the end. Jess Gillam (the very young saxophonist whom I love) also had one or two similar ones. And a Cambridge outfit called How does your Garden Grow did one on the Candide song. I haven't seen that one on line, so I don't know if they actually produced it in the end (or they cut me out and didn't like to say so!)
Yes, my feeling along with Paul, was that they were very loud and that you needed to adjust the volume a bit.
Best wishes
Maruja
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-08-30 15:23
Maruja,
Two separate issues........unfortunately. Being further from the mic is not to adjust the volume per se but to achieve two other issues. The biggest is to make sure (in this case where you're not in control of the input volume separate from the output volume) you are not creating distortion (or artifices that are not there). This is normally done by modulating the input volume of the pre-amp. The other issue is good mic technique protocol for clarinet recording. You need a bit more room resonance (interaction with the clarinet sound) to create a natural clarinet sounding experience. This is the opposite of voice where you'll see many examples of top pop singers snug up to the microphone (in this example you want JUST voice and no room interactions at all).
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-08-30 17:07
Hi,
Thank so much Paul for your advice. I'll try again with the powershot some distance away and think about the room and dynamics. I know our hallway does nice things to the sound of our piano so I'll try there and compare with other rooms. I once played my violin in a conservatory and I know that was definitely not a good idea. (Loud! :-))
Maruja - don't worry about the video if you prefer not to put it on the BBoard. Your orchestras sound a lot of fun though. Thanks for posting.
Jen
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Author: claricolin
Date: 2020-08-31 13:37
Hi Jen, as one fellow Scot/scientist/adult clarinet learner/young kid parent to another:
I just did a video exam. It was a lot harder than I thought it would be to get an acceptable (to me at least) result. After much experimentation, I ended up videoing myself with a Nikon D750 DSLR, and used an SE X1A condenser mic placed kind of at ceiling level about 2m in front to me (thanks to Paul A. for that advice). The mic needs a usb interface, and I used a cheap Scarlett Solo. My pieces were accompanied so I used Adobe Audition (but the free Audacity app would also do) to play the accompaniment files, and recorded myself as a second track on that file in real time. Then, I used Premiere Pro to replace the audio from the Nikon with the audio from the SEX1A / accompaniment.
It was a lot of work and, given the result I achieved (I passed, but not by much), I would have been better off concentrating on the clarinet instead of the tech!! I did learn a bit about recording, though
cheers
Colin
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-08-31 15:23
Crikey! That was a lot of work. Are we allowed to do that much post processing? I thought we were just meant to do a single take with no post processing, using a gadget that records sound and video at the same time.
Well done for doing it.
Jen
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Author: claricolin
Date: 2020-08-31 16:23
I’m in Australia so the rules are probably slightly different...they didn’t specify single device for A and V, and they did recommend using a dslr and external mic. I didn’t actually alter the clarinet track, just replaced the camera audio with the better quality external mic audio, single take. Gee I hope that wasn’t a no-no!
Good luck with your exam—
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-08-31 17:16
Hi,
That interesting to know that they recommended at DSLR and external mic. Useful to know. :-) I was reading about that possibility the other day but it seems as though I would need to buy the microphone which would cost a bit. I might try just with my powershot camera and see how that goes.
Thanks for explaining what you did. That is helpful.
Jen
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-08-31 20:11
There are a LOT of ways to alter the audio in post production to include pitch of each note, length of each note, intensity of each note, editing in good notes, reverberation, delay......etc.
So unless you're doing that stuff, I wouldn't worry about breaking the rules.
..............Paul Aviles
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