 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-08-27 20:06
Attachment: b.jpg (35k)
Hi,
I wondered if anyone might have ideas for quicker fingerings for the grace note in the attached extract? I am trying the A key and the top side key, but it is a bit sharp for a B natural.
Thanks!
Jen
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-08-27 20:09
Ooo! I think I worked it out. I think the grace note should be the usual Bb with the second side key.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-08-29 17:15
Hi Liquorice,
I tried that but it plays markedly sharp. If I do the fingering I mentioned it plays in tune. I thought that was probably better.
Jen
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-08-29 17:58
To be honest, my first inclination is to use the standard long B fingering. Those RH side keys are indispensable for trills, but I don't see that they're needed for most single grace notes. Your right hand fingers will (or can) be mostly or entirely down anyway. Releasing the LH holes to go from the grace note B down to A shouldn't be a problem. You only need, if it's difficult, to practice getting your LH fingers in place to play the B.
The advantages are that the pitch and tone for the grace note are better and your hands can stay in position. The right hand won't have to reach up to get to whatever of the trill keys you're trying to use.
Karl
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2020-08-29 19:33
Hi Jen. That fingering us not supposed to be markedly sharp because it is almost the only function of the top trill key. (You can also trill from Bb to C using both of the top trill keys). So if it’s not working then something needs to be adjusted in your instrument.
Please check something: when you push the top trill key it should only lift the one cup over the top tone hole. Sometimes, if the key is not regulated properly (or slightly bent) it also pushes down on the next key and raises that cup too. This would produce a B which is markedly sharp. If your clarinet is doing this it is easy to fix.
If not, and the regular fingering is too sharp, then I would consider filling in the tone hole to bring the pitch down.
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-08-29 20:29
I have found that the top trill key's intonation varies on instruments. I have used both this and the regular B fingerings for the grace note.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-08-30 14:01
Hi Liquorice,
Thanks for mentioning about that. I'll ask next time my clarinet goes to see a technician. The second pad is definitely not lifting just now.
KDK - That's an interesting thought about keeping all my right hand fingers down. My teacher strongly feels that I shouldn't do that and the folks on here feel that I should. I suppose the thing to do is to experiment with both and see what works for my particular fingers.
With my clarinet I did find that doing standard Bb and the second trill key works, but then I have a great leap to get back down to standard B natural fingering, which is very difficult. That makes me think that keeping my right hand down might be the better idea.
Thanks!
Jen
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2020-08-30 17:21
Hi Jen. I agree with kdk about using the regular B fingering. Crossing the break with normal fingerings in either direction can be difficult in earlier stages, but intervals like the one in question are common. Focus and persistence will make such coordination smooth and sure, until you no longer even think about it.
Liquorice is also right about the trill keys' functions. Those need to work right, and be in tune, for standard trills or any other use you may find for them.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-08-30 17:59
SunnyDaze wrote:
> KDK - That's an interesting thought about keeping all my right
> hand fingers down. My teacher strongly feels that I shouldn't
> do that and the folks on here feel that I should. I suppose the
> thing to do is to experiment with both and see what works for
> my particular fingers.
>
Your teacher has his reasons if he feels strongly against covering the RH holes for open G (I'd be curious what they are) and players may agree or disagree. In any case, which if any holes you close for resonance or comfort crossing the break depends on the individual instrument, since resonance and intonation are both affected differently by the specific combination of holes you close on any given (Boehm) clarinet.
But this is a special case - as it would be to use one of the trill keys. The point is, if the B weren't a grace note - say the melody were quarter notes G-B-A G or even quarter-note G, half note B, quarter notes A and G - I wouldn't think you'd even consider using a trill key for the B. You'd have to be able to get the B to speak with the long fingering and one or the other of the lever keys that you normally use for B. The problem of playing the B isn't different in any of these configurations including Gade's grace notes. Getting back to the A key shouldn't be a problem, but if it is, it again isn't really different in any of these three versions.
It's obviously a different problem if you're repeating A to B quickly a number of times (as in a trill), or Bb to C, etc.. Trills over the break would be very awkward without those side keys. But with the exceptions of using the side Bb (A key + 2nd from the top side key) and Eb/Bb with the bottom side key, none of the trill key fingerings produce as good a result as the primary fingerings. Marcellus, I've read, didn't even like using the chromatic F# (thumb + bottom two side keys) because he didn't think it sounded as good as the index finger fingering.
Of course, playing for yourself, use whatever fingering gets you through most comfortably. Whatever works is better than something that doesn't.
Karl
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-08-30 18:38
Hi Philip and Carl,
Thanks, it's really helpful hear about that. I'm really stuck at the moment because my teacher is utterly certain that I shouldn't put right hand fingers down for these open notes, and it's clear that everyone on the forum thinks the opposite. Tricky!
I think I'll try everything, and also try to get my trill key fixed (maybe once the covid has gone away a bit more from our community though).
Thanks!
Jen
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-08-30 20:18
Just to be clear, I don't myself think that you should just automatically put down your RH fingers under any and all circumstances. It's a technique that can improve sound and/or the player's comfort under some conditions. The point with this or any other technique is that it's available if it serves the end result. The more techniques a player has available, the better the chances of producing a good result.
Karl
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-08-30 20:46
Hi Karl,
Thanks, that's really good to know. I'll try lots of things and see what works.
Jen
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-08-30 20:58
Thanks for the discussion on keeping the right hand down. I THINK at some point I was taught to do that, or at least in some circumstances. To be honest, I'm not really sure if or when I have done this the past few decades. May have to think about it when I practice. Maybe you just get into habits that work for you and stop thinking about the details. Remember, I'm the guy who hadn't thought about how much mouthpiece to take in the last 50 years....
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-08-31 12:46
I know what you mean Tom. :-)
I just tried lots all the different options, and I find it quite hard to get the all-fingers-down B natural to sound quickly and cleanly as a grace note, but the A+top trill key does that really neatly if it was only in tune.
I rang my local repair person and he says that the trill key is lifting up too much and I need to bend it so it only lifts a little bit. (like 1mm compared to the current clearance of 2mm).
I'm bracing myself and will give that a go.
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