 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-08-21 21:51
I've noticed that a big defect of students is not taking in enough mouthpiece, which chokes the tone for the simple reason that the reed isn't vibrating as freely as it should. I would just like to get a discussion going on this, because it is a common defect, not just among very young players. Obviously, how much mouthpiece you should take in depends on the thickness of your lips, the angle at which you hold your clarinet, the form of your teeth. My analysis of why players don't take in enough:
1. The fear of squeaking, which is not baseless. Yet more squeaking is due to jostling the wrong key than to taking in too much mouthpiece.
2. Taking in a lot of mouthpiece gives rise to a rather unpleasant, unnatural sensation.
The teacher and clarinetist, Mitchel Lurie, used to advocate taking in as much mouthpiece as possible; which is actually just a fraction more than what you usually take in. But this seemingly insignificant fraction goes far in freeing the tone.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-08-21 22:32
Yes I agree with Mitchell Lurie and other fine performers and educators here in the United States such as David Shifrin.
Although as you point out one does not have to take in all the useable reed/facing to achieve a sound (some results this way are better than others) and it made for some controversy with our esteemed colleague Tony Pay.
However, if one is interested to know where that "maximum point" is, you only need to try the following:
Play an open "G" (continuously) as you slowly take in more and more mouthpiece. At some point you lose control of the tone and all you get is a great big SQUAWK. Backing off slightly from there is the "ideal" spot of most efficient use of your facing (and that naturally accounts for lips, teeth, angle, etc.).
Obsessive person that I am, I still regularly check every week or so to ensure that I have not "slipped" away too far off the mark.
For me, this is really a beneficial posture, though some may find it easier to pretend their facing is shorter than it really is.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2020-08-22 00:49
Well I made reeds at Rico for Mitchell Lurie. Well over 1 million reeds per year He was a very wonderful man and we had a lot of fun outside of work as well as with his reed designs. I was also very close to Iggie Gennusa. Both people, teachers, and symphony players, and feel the very same as the above posts. As for Bob Marcellus, he played on a bit more open mouthpiece and he too put a lot of mouthpiece in his mouth. Gennusa and Lurie were Bonade students. Not sure about Marcellus. If anything he was more of a Gennusa student, he loved Gennusa's sound. Lastly all of these players believed in a strong upper lip. Perhaps some people can pop in who studied with the great Harold Wright.
The basic way to learn how much mouthpiece to use might be a very simple technique. Have the student take in as much mouthpiece as possible until you squeak, then back off a bit. This allows the reeds to vibrate freely. I've written about this many times; the need to play long tones everyday, regardless if you are playing in a major symphony or simply just starting out. This practice warms up the horn as well as you. There isn't that magical position which fits everyone.
Part of mastering this position is not biting with regards to the upper register. If you practice lower register long tones the upper register should fall into place. Needed is a mirror used everyday too, to see the positions of your mouth to the mouthpiece.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2020-08-24 01:46)
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-08-22 01:06
Very interesting thread and advice. I have to admit I never gave this very much thought. Can't recall any of my teachers mentioning how much mouthpiece I took in--maybe I was just OK with what I was doing. I can't recall saying anything about this to any of my school band students, beginners included. I always found that the clarinet was probably the easiest of the band instruments for a beginner to start on. Maybe there were problems I just didn't catch.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: donald
Date: 2020-08-22 01:46
Wow, did it ever occur to you that maybe you should re-name your book? This stuff is basic.
Post Edited (2020-08-22 12:10)
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2020-08-22 02:25
Surely, you want to take in as much mouthpiece and reed as will give you:
(1) the sound you want, required by your idea of the music
(2) the ablilty to go between notes with the sounds you want for them, required by your idea of the music
(3) the dynamic required by your idea of the music, in context.
That amount will also change with different reeds and different pitch requirements, and may vary from passage to passage too.
I had an exceptionally technically able colleague who would sometimes slide the mouthpiece in and out of her mouth while playing. I never went that far, but I do change what I call my 'address' to the instrument according to circumstance.
So my answer to Ruben's question is that SOME students tend to take too little mouthpiece in, SOME students tend to take too much mouthpiece in, and MOST BAD STUDENTS think that there is a RIGHT WAY TO DO IT.
The good ones are listening to the results.
Tony
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-08-22 13:24
Paul: I can't wait to try your open G exercise! It is true that there is such a thing as taking in too much mouthpiece, but I think taking in too little is a more usual defect.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-08-22 15:07
"Too much" cannot happen because you don't produce a controlled sound (musical note). "Too much" is being on, or beyond the point where reed and mouthpiece meet.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2020-08-22 17:54
I had two experiences with this I'll share with you. I studied one summer with Earl Bates at Aspen, the respected principal clarinetists with the St. Louis Symphony at the time. He taught me to place my teeth as close to the tip of the MP as possible but my lower iip lower which actually resulted in taking less MP than I was and holding the clarinet much closer to my body, he claimed that was the way Bonade played and even had me purchase a Bonade MP. When I came home to my teacher at Mannes, Eric Simon, he suggested I take in more mouthpiece and hold the clarinet out like I was before.
When I took a lesson with Robert Marcellus several years later he spent a lot of time having me trying different angles and we both agreed holding the clarinet out very slightly more than I was, resulting in taking a tiny bit more MP, gave me a slightly fuller tone.
When I teach clarinet and bass clarinet I always ask a student to take as much MP as possible and than begin taking a little less until they find the "perfect" amount for tone and control. Too much is no good, too little is no good, the perfect amount is just right. Each player is different in every respect.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-08-23 00:38
Ed: It's funny that Bonade should have said that; and this is not the first time I have heard he did. Mitchell Lurie, who studied with him and swore by him, said the exact opposite. I agree with you that the optimal point has to be found.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2020-08-23 02:26
As I've said before, Bonade has a lot to answer for, especially his misunderstanding of the classical style and his incessant promulgation of that misunderstanding.
In this technical case, though, perhaps more at fault are those who report what he may have said on one particular occasion, to one particular player. They then choose to elevate that report into general, god-given wisdom.
It happens a lot with the characterisation of other so-called 'legendary' players on this BBoard.
As was said in another thread, it's OK to be ignorant, but try not to spread it around if at all possible.
Tony
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Author: kdk
Date: 2020-08-23 04:38
Gigliotti didn't take a lot of mouthpiece, either, and never mentioned it during my lessons with him. I'm wary when anyone says "as much as possible" (or "as little as possible") because what's possible is contextual. You *could* shove the mouthpiece in far enough for your lower lip to touch the ligature. I don't think, except maybe for some kind of sound effect, anyone would consider doing that. But, it's "possible." As much reed (mouthpiece) as possible *while allowing control and flexibility* will vary with the reed and the mouthpiece and the sensation of how much reed a player is taking depends on how much of the reed is covered by the bottom lip.
I have had students who couldn't produce any kind of dynamic range because they really did need to take more reed in their mouths. I have had a few others whose honky, tubby sound resulted from a little too much reed.
I have to say, the problem with students at both ends of that spectrum is in convincing them that their musical range was being limited by their choices. They're usually so used to what they're doing and so uncomfortable with any change that the best - sometimes the only - way to get them to adjust is by having them run up against something they can't do.
Karl
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2020-08-23 17:15
Just to clarify what I wrote that Earl Bates told me. , I didn't not hear it from Bonade nor did I promote it. "he claimed that was the way Bonade played" not what he told him.
This is what I wrote. "Too much is no good, too little is no good, the perfect amount is just right. Each player is different in every respect."
Just wanted to make sure no one misunderstood what I actually wrote.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2020-08-23 17:19)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2020-08-23 17:56
For some, "taking in more mouthpiece" can feel awkward and uncomfortable. The idea of playing closer to the tip, but bringing the bottom lip lower on the reed can achieve the same result. It is different for each person and for their physical make up. I had been told that one of the reasons that Bonade held the clarinet at a closer angle was because he had an overbite.
As Tony mentioned, it is all about using your ears and finding the best result for you.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-08-23 18:31
That is good clarification Ed. It is ALL about where the lower lip/teeth damp the reed/mouthpiece.
Same principle. If you slide your lower lip down too far.......just noise, no note.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2020-08-23 21:10
Paul Aviles (who else) wrote:
>> It is ALL about where the lower lip/teeth damp the reed/mouthpiece.>>
This post explains why the capitalised 'ALL' in the above is simplistic.
Tony
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-08-23 21:36
donald-- About renaming the book-- Why would basic stuff be in an advanced book? Perhaps I should include a section on assembling the instrument?
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
Post Edited (2020-08-23 21:37)
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Author: donald
Date: 2020-08-24 01:17
Because if you don't know basic stuff you have no place writing what you call an "advanced" book you turkey. It's unbelievable I even had to write that.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-08-24 01:21
The reference to the lower lip/teeth above is really only about the idea of "taking in enough mouthpiece" and how that is affected by the point where reed and mouthpiece come together (whatever we wish to call that point).
I would not even attempt a full description of what embouchure means. Of course I have quoted Bas DeJong numerous times on this Board before when he and his Germanic schooled colleagues mused over the obsession the US players have with embouchure. By comparison (BY COMPARISON) Germanic players merely put the mouthpiece in their mouths and just blow.
Who knew the Brits were even more anal retentive?
I currently favor the more practical Germanic approach. Much less effort; way more sound.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-08-24 04:55
donald, I replied to the early posts saying the advices given were very interesting. And that I simply had not (recalled anyway) anything any of my teachers (including 4 years with Russianoff) said on the subject.
You proceeded to make what I considered a snide remark pertaining to the title of my book. So of course I shot back. We'll probably get the Moderators mad now.
Was this your intent?
I wasn't thinking about how much mouthpiece I took in when I played the Nielsen, or when getting my MM in performance.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
Post Edited (2020-08-24 05:50)
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Author: alanporter
Date: 2020-08-24 07:07
Oh dear ! At this point should I mention again my band member who lubricates his keys by spraying his whole instrument with WD40. .I brought this subject to his attention and he said,"Clarinet bulletin board, " Mouthpiece madness, ligature lunacy, barrel, bore and bell bullsh*t !)
I don't know what to believe !.
tiaroa@shaw.ca
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2020-08-24 10:53
1. The depth of the mouthpiece in the mouth depends on the length and shape of the mouthpiece curve. You need to get your lower lip into a position where it can ideally control the tension of the reed. It is your lower lip that presses the reed against the mouthpiece producing a tension in the reed that is necessary to get a sound out of the instrument.
2. The angle of the mouthpiece controls the place and direction of your upper teeth above the mouthpiece. The more your instrument points down, that higher up your upper teeth are and that less straight they contact the mouthpiece to avoid "biting"
3. The upper lip pressure's great importance. It is essential because it is the only way to avoid biting the mouthpiece, which leads to an embouchure that is very rigid and will eliminate practically all the possibilities of making those quick, minor changes in the tightness of the embouchure you need. Also building the tightness of the embouchure on the upper lip gives you the possibility to variate the hardness of your lip muscles around the mouthpiece. Imagine a beefsteak: from rock solid well-done to delicate softness of medium-rare. Delicious!
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2020-08-24 17:49
Players of German style mouthpieces and reeds embody the principles I laid out in my linked post. Note that that post said nothing about what you SHOULD do, despite what kdk tried to make of it.
The subtle forces and movements involved in playing a German mouthpiece and reed are much smaller than those involved in playing an open-faced Italian mouthpiece, but they are still there. Not all German players are equally excellent, after all.
"They merely put the mouthpiece in their mouths and just blow," reminds me of Lauren Bacall's line to Humphrey Bogart in "To Have and Have Not".
She says, "You know how to whistle, don't you, Steve? You just put your lips together and BLOW." (This has the required effect on Bogey:-)
But anyone who remembers learning how to whistle – or alternatively, remembers later encountering someone who could REALLY whistle – will understand how underspecified an instruction Bacall's is. Yet it really does seem that when we whistle, we put our lips together and blow, and not much else.
What's required to whistle excellently is very subtle, and essentially learned with long practice, like excellent clarinet playing, as I point out in my post.Quote:
"Everything should be made as simple as possible; but not simpler."
(Einstein)
Tony
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Author: rmk54
Date: 2020-08-24 17:58
You proceeded to make what I considered a snide remark pertaining to the title of my book.
----------------------------------------
It's also odd that the clarinet on the cover of your book is reversed - RH keys on the left and vice versa. Is this an advanced technique?
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-08-24 20:44
Wow you guys are having a ball. Maybe it's the pandemic lockdowns. SO DON'T BUY THE _______ BOOK.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-08-24 21:38
Don't take it too personally Tom. It's easy to find other people's flaws. Much harder to pick it up in oneself.
And this electronic media stuff makes it a easier to poke at folks where normal, healthy consciences wouldn't think to poke in person.
I try very hard not to take electronic snubs personally.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-08-24 21:59
Right Paul. Maybe I just opened the door by saying that how much mouthpiece I took in never seemed to be an issue for me. I suppose my very first teacher in 1963 when I was in 3rd grade may have adjusted my embouchure very well?
And yes, there was the very odd time as a band director that I told a beginning student they had way too much mouthpiece in or way too little.
Perhaps my lack of problems with this issue added nothing to ruben's original post and that irritated a couple of folks.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
Post Edited (2020-08-24 22:00)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-08-24 22:33
Roger that.
I only get a little cocky on this subject BECAUSE of this Board. It was Tom Puwalski who posted a number of years ago that he could switch to virtually any mouthpiece instantly by checking where that "fulcrum" point is with a squawk test.
Sounded pretty reasonable to me.
.......................Paul Aviles
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Author: hans
Date: 2020-08-25 21:29
Attachment: BG Page 6.jpg (283k)
FWIW, Benny Goodman's Clarinet Method book (excerpt attached) prescribes inserting about 1/2 of the mouthpiece. Artie Shaw's book didn't discuss it.
Hans
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-08-26 00:57
Dear Hans, Benny used incredibly soft reeds: number 2. I wonder how he got those high notes out on Bartok's Contrasts with such a soft reed.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-08-26 01:16
This thread got me thinking of course about my not ever really thinking about this. So I measured and found that my top teeth were on the mouthpiece a tiny bit more than half an inch from the tip of the mouthpiece. Does that sound "normal"?
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-08-26 01:36
I think it's pretty safe to say from all the good advice here so far that the is no "normal." I think though that's oddly just about where my teeth mark's fall on my patch.
[just got home from trip.......actually 3/8" I use short lay mouthpieces]
Lot of good advice in the Benny Goodman excerpt.
I recall a TV interview/group lesson with a few young students. Benny asked one of the students what strength reed she used. She told him it was a number five. He visibly winced and said, "I don't know how you play on that!" At the time I was chasing open mouthpieces and hard reeds (five for me as well) and I thought...."What is he talking about?"
............Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2020-08-26 07:09)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2020-08-26 02:10
Tom H wrote:
> my top teeth
> were on the mouthpiece a tiny bit more than half an inch from
> the tip of the mouthpiece. Does that sound "normal"?
>
Where your top teeth end up isn't the issue. That's a result of the angle at which you hold the clarinet away from your body and where you put your lower lip on the reed. It hasn't really to do with how much mouthpiece you take in at all - it's how much reed you take in, or where your lower lip contacts the reed and how much of the reed it covers, and to an extent what direction the lower lip presses against the reed.
Karl
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Author: kdk
Date: 2020-08-26 02:13
What mouthpiece did he use, and was it the same one he used when fronting his band? I don't remember how he held the clarinet (at what angle) when he was sitting and playing "classical" music. I imagine you can make anything work if you adjust your mechanics to suit the equipment.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-08-26 07:18
I don't recall Goodman mentioning a brand of mouthpiece except for much later in his career when travelling through England he said he'd picked up a few Pillingers that he really liked. I think like a lot of players, he kept experimenting.
As for classical Benny, when he prepared to do the recording of the Weber concertos, he took a number of lessons with Robert Marcellus. Many years later during summer master classes at Northwestern Robert Marcellus reffered to those lessons not bothering to hide his opinion of Goodman's ability to fully capitalize on his intructions. However Marcellus generously added that he always really liked the technique and sound Goodman exhibited with his legendary sextet.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: hans
Date: 2020-08-26 21:51
Attachment: Benny Goodman.jpg (458k)
Karl,
FWIW, Benny's method book has a photo (attached) that shows how he held his clarinet but it looks like he is in front of his swing band.
Regards,
Hans
Post Edited (2020-08-26 21:55)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2020-08-26 22:07
Paul Ive mentioned this in the past. When I was studying with Eric Simon, 57-60, he showed me Benny's Mozart Concerto album that Benny sent him and signed with a thank you. Simon told me he came in seveal times from CA to study the "style" with him and credited him for his help. Simon said he played it the same say he did at his first playing and didn't really take any of his suggestions.
And yes, I think the consensus on how much MP to take depends on the individual.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2020-08-26 22:16
ruben wrote:
> Dear Hans, Benny used incredibly soft reeds: number 2. I
> wonder how he got those high notes out on Bartok's Contrasts
> with such a soft reed.
kdk wrote:
> What mouthpiece did he use, and was it the same one he used
> when fronting his band? I don't remember how he held the
> clarinet (at what angle) when he was sitting and playing
> "classical" music. I imagine you can make anything work if you
> adjust your mechanics to suit the equipment.
Keep in mind that my question above had specifically to do with ruben's earlier comment/question about producing the high notes in Contrasts with such a soft reed. I wondered only if he may have modified his usual big band approach (and his equipment) to make that recording, or even perhaps his other classical recordings as well.
Karl
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-08-27 01:05
Karl, Thanks. I mentioned my top teeth are a little more than a half inch down from the tip of the mouthpiece. My lower lip (well, that's not as precise as teeth, but) is about a little bit further down on the reed than the top teeth. So, a little more than half an inch of reed is in my mouth.
I'm just wondering if that is about "normal"? I know things obviously vary some by individual.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2020-08-27 01:57
Gosh, why are you even concerned with whether what you do is 'normal'?
How, indeed, would Karl, just a standard US guy, have any idea of what is 'normal' in the first place?
A better question is: does what you do give you the results you want?
If it turns out I'm not talking to you, then how might the people who find your questions plausible, respond?
Tony
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-08-27 02:00
Just one more "imprecise" comment about the old jazz players.
During an interview with a classically trained clarinet player, Artie Shaw was asked about playing his theme song every night at the end of a long set (Nightmare) that had a bunch of high Cs in it. "How can you go for those notes and be sure your going to hit them every time?" Artie told the fellow to place his hand on the desk between them and raise his right pinky. The interviewer did that and Artie said, "If it weren't that easy, I wouldn't do it."
Those guys had technique that we'll never know.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk
Date: 2020-08-27 02:22
Tony Pay wrote:
> How, indeed, would Karl, just a standard US guy, have any idea
> of what is 'normal' in the first place?
>
I'm an ordinary man,
Quiet, even tempered, whom you'd never hear complain...
:)
Karl
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2020-08-27 02:31
Just that if 'normal' is to be assessed in any way, neither you (nor I) is in any position to do it.
Tony
Post Edited (2020-08-27 02:37)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2020-08-27 03:11
Tony Pay wrote:
> Just that if 'normal' is to be assessed in any way, neither you
> (nor I) is in any position to do it.
I understood. The lyric (from My Fair Lady) just popped into my head and I couldn't resist it.
And I agree completely.
Karl
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-08-27 04:41
Tony, Early in the thread I posted that I hadn't ever really given any thought about the amount of mouthpiece I took. Yes, I have felt over decades that what I do works for me. But there was discussion back there, so I figured there are different views of what may be considered normal or maybe "right". I also know of course that individuals vary regarding embouchure, due to physical differences (perhaps vary even more when it comes to flute and finding the optimum place on the tone hole). Maybe my question is whether or not there is some sort of generally agreed upon standard--one that may have small variations, but generally, one should take in about this much.
Since I have given so little thought to this, I was just curious about IF there is any kind of accepted "normal"-- maybe something we all on this thread may agree upon.... or not.
I get wordy at times, but how about this---
I have described exactly how much mouthpiece I take in. Who on the thread does something similar? Who does something radically different? Who does something somewhat different? Does anyone in these 3 categories find that a particular thing is difficult (ie. getting altissimo notes, short staccato, tone problems, squeaks, etc.)?
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
Post Edited (2020-08-27 04:48)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-08-27 05:43
But Tom, there are so many different length facings!
I use short facings of about 14mm as my ideal. However 17mm is medium long with some going 20mm or more. So what would be "normal" for a long facing (irrespective of the user) would be, dare I say, impossible on a short lay such as 14mm.
Do you know the facing length of your current or favorite mouthpiece?
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2020-08-27 06:14
It seems there is no objective standard for the amount of mouthpiece to put in one’s mouth. It is dependent on your mouthpiece, reed strength and cut, lip size, etc. etc. A good teacher will make suggestions after hearing the student play. If you are assessing your own playing then record yourself and figure out what changes are required if any.
Freelance woodwind performer
Post Edited (2020-08-27 06:20)
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-08-27 06:26
Good point Paul. My VanD 5RV facing is 2 3/4 inches long. I would think the very similar old V360 I used was about the same. I've only used these 2 mouthpieces since the mid '70s, about 25 years each. Maybe that is part of why I seem to have these questions.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
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Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: kdk
Date: 2020-08-27 07:05
Tom, the facing length Paul is referring to is the distance from the point on the lay where the reed and mouthpiece separate to the end of the tip. Your 5RV is, according to Vandoren's chart, a Medium Short length, which is probably around 15, maybe even 14 mm (since there's nothing shorter on the list) from the point of separation (or as close to it as a very thin feeler can get) to the tip end.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-08-27 18:08
I appreciate the idea that one can 'visualize' the point where mouthpiece and reed come together as suggested in the article using a piece of paper or teflon. Just realize though that the most direct method is the actual contact of the lower lip/teeth. There is nothing ambiguous about getting to the point where no musical sound comes out.
just sayin'
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-08-28 04:48
Thanks Karl, Show's you how much I've studied mouthpieces over 50+ years....
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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