 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: tyleman
Date: 2020-08-04 21:37
I'm curious if those who play orchestral music or in "classical" groups tend to play the Buffet R-13 or are there other clarinets they prefer (obviously this question is directed to those musicians who play Boehm).
Thanks in advance.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-08-04 23:26
Here in the US that is mostly the case. It has gotten far more diverse in the last twenty years though, with all the usual suspects.....Backun, Chadash, Rossi, but still predominantly Buffet (and heavy on the R13).
A friend of mine said this when I was extolling the attributes of one of the current newer horns, "It's a Buffet world, and I already have one." This sorta relates to a current thread about sticking with equipment through your career or experimenting.
I would say that many of the most successful symphonic clarinet players I've met are:
Practical
Career oriented
Persnickety (in a good way)
Detail minded
Conservative ("if it ain't broke, don't fix it)
Those folks tend to use what the teachers tell them to use and/or stick with what's working because they have a career that pays a living wage so why risk messing with it.
But Ed Palanker of this Board loves his Selmer Signature, Riccardo Morales played Backun until he switched to Uebel, and I believe the principal in Louisville uses Chadash.
Things have opened up .......but nothing succeeds like success.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-08-05 09:49
Most American players, at any rate. The R13 is supposed to play at A-440 and in Europe, most orchestras play at A-442.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: m1964
Date: 2020-08-05 10:24
ruben wrote:
> Most American players, at any rate. The R13 is supposed to play
> at A-440 and in Europe, most orchestras play at A-442.
>
I thought it was possible to buy R13 in Europe with two barrels- standard plus 1 mm shorter.
But it looks like the RC is more popular than R13, in Europe.
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Author: Michael E. Shultz
Date: 2020-08-05 14:19
m1964 wrote:
> ruben wrote:
>
> > Most American players, at any rate. The R13 is supposed to
> play
> > at A-440 and in Europe, most orchestras play at A-442.
> >
>
> I thought it was possible to buy R13 in Europe with two
> barrels- standard plus 1 mm shorter.
> But it looks like the RC is more popular than R13, in Europe.
My Buffet Festival Greenline came with 2 barrels, 65 mm & 66 mm.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
Groucho Marx
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-08-05 15:42
You're right, but I am of the belief that the length of the barrel is not the only thing that determines whether a clarinet is conceived for A-440 or A-442; contrary to what manufacturers would have us believe. I tried to talk Selmer into bringing out a real A-440 clarinet for the American and British market, but wasn't listened to. It's a pity for them because this could meet with great success.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
Post Edited (2020-08-05 15:45)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2020-08-05 17:43
When I was a college student in NY, 57-62 most players I knew played Buffets in the NY and most orchestra I knew of. Earl Bates, then principal in St. Louis, played LaBlanc when I studied with him at Aspen. Anthony Gilliotti, principal in Philly played Selmer as did many of his students at the time, but not all. Later Michele Zukovsky in LA. played a German System clarinet. I belive Todd Levy in Milwaukee plays or played Selmer, Ricardo Morales played Selmer for many years before gong to Backun and now Uebel. I believe Jonh Bruce Yeh in Chicago plays Yamaha. The former principal in my BSO played Chadash before he retried. I knew several players that played Chadash several years ago but I believe they lost it's popularity. I imagine Buffets, not just the R13, is still the most popular clarinet in America but I bet more players use more other makes these days. I retired from the BSO 8 years ago but switched to my Selmer Signiture Bb over 20 years ago when I tried several after searching for a new Buffet for seveal years. I still played my Buffet A, with Backun bells and barrels, that I've used for my 51 years as a professional. Just a beautiful horn.
Remember, if you simply use a shorter barrel to make your R13, or any clarinet, sharper it will make the throat tones perportionately sharper than the notes on the other end of the clarinet so one will have to make adjustments.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: gatto
Date: 2020-08-05 17:55
I would guess, in Europe (outside Germany and Austria), the bestsellers for professionals are by far RC Prestige, Festival and Tosca. Probably the quite recent Legende/Tradition will increase in the future. And mouthpieces: B40, B40 13, B40 Lyre, BD5. An R13 I see always never (though Sharon Kam seems to play one). It might be different in Britain (R13/R13 Prestige, Peter Eaton,...)
My information is from watching online videos etc.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2020-08-07 07:38
ruben,
Just for the record, many of the top U.S. professional orchestras play at 442 -- and have for some time. A number of years ago (at least 7 or 8), a first violinist with the St. Louis Symphony played the Barber concerto with a community orchestra I was in at the time. I remember as we were tuning for the first rehearsal, he asked our principal oboist if we could possibly tune to 442 because going back and forth between 440 and 442 was not good for his strings (our orchestra did normally play at 440). The oboist, who was a bit of a curmudgeon (and who undoubtedly had made his reeds to play at 440) just looked at the violinist and said, "No."
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: kilo
Date: 2020-08-07 12:41
I'm reminded of an article in the late Sherm Friedland's "Clarinet Corner" about the Boston Symphony. He said that in Boston, in 1960, "even the cars were Selmers."
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2020-08-07 12:45
I think that some players used R13s in the UK. But on the continent I know of only very few players who used R13s. The RC, RC Prestige and Festival models were much more popular here. In more recent times, the Tosca has been a very popular model, unlike the Divine. This is a bit strange, because I believe the Tosca is more similar in bore dimensions to the R13 and the Divine more similar to the RC. We'll see how the Tradition and Legend models fare...
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-08-07 12:51
Liquorice: the Tosca has been an incredible success story for Buffet. Is that what you normally play? It is true that it is similar in bore to the R13; rather ironical because whereas the R13 never caught on in Europe, the Tosca has.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-08-07 13:02
Liquorice wrote:
> This is a bit strange, because I
> believe the Tosca is more similar in bore dimensions to the R13
> and the Divine more similar to the RC.
I'm surprised to read this. I normally don't pay much if any attention to what players are using. But the times - maybe two - that I played next to someone using a Tosca, my impression was that, if anything, they sounded a little heavy and tubby. Maybe more the players (and their reed/mouthpiece choices) than the instruments?
Karl
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2020-08-07 13:49
Ruben- for 5 years I've been playing S&S.
Some years ago I went with a student to the Buffet factory in Mantes-la-Ville to help her choose a new Bb clarinet. She was struggling to decide if she wanted a Festival or a Tosca model. In the end she chose the best two of each model and played them for me in a blind test. Two instruments stood out as being far better to my ears, so I confidently told her this, expecting to have solved her dilemma. The results? 1 Festival, 1 Tosca!
I'm not really sure what "bore based on R13/RC" really means. To me the Tosca plays very differently from the R13 and the Divine very differently from the RC. But I guess they would have to, otherwise there would be no point designing new models!
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2020-08-07 13:51
Karl: yes- "tubby" seems to be a new fashion in clarinet sound. Not one that I'm a huge fan of. I think it has a lot to do with mouthpiece choice.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-08-07 18:10
Karl: the small company I work for had two different models with identical bores. The tone holes on them were placed differently and were of slightly different diameters. This was enough to make the tone of these instruments radically different. Conclusion: it's not only the bore that counts but some bore-tonehole ratio. This applies to intonation and also timbre and response. I don't think the Tosca is just a "tarted-up" R13. They must have done something else to it. It sounds "woodier" to me than an R-13.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: EbClarinet
Date: 2020-08-11 00:42
I've heard some decent clarinet tone quality on Yamaha clarinets. Both online and in college. I heard this 1 classical woman on a Patricola clarinet and she had that big, fat classical tone quality. I thought it was a R13 until I read the video.
So, to me, it's the player and not the clarinet.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/mbtldsongministry/
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2020-08-13 08:29
>> but I am of the belief that the length of the barrel is not the only thing that determines whether a clarinet is conceived for A-440 or A-442; contrary to what manufacturers would have us believe. <<
Could be true and although my country usually tiny and insignificant in the grand scheme of things... it's a bit of a "tweener" that might show something. Classical music is almost always 442. Yet the R13 is by far the most popular clarinet here. There's definitely more variation than before, especially changing in the last decade, but it's still the most popular model. In the past it was pretty rare to find a professional or high level student without an R13.
I'm not sure why the R13 became the "default" even though the classical music "world" here is mostly from Europe, including the 442 tuning. I'm half guessing it originally came from some American influences. It could even be something random as an American clarinet player being friends with the first clarinet importers and suggesting this model. I have no idea.
The thing is, local players were never known to have "worse" intonation. It's the same as anywhere else. They were never struggling to play at 442 with the R13, even with 66mm barrels (barrels lengths vary, it really depends on the player and mouthpiece).
Unless you play strictly classical music here, is pretty much standard to play both 440 and 442. For example anything similar to classical music (e.g. any modern chamber music, etc.) is usually 442. Jazz can be either really. A lot of rock/pop/alternative/electronic music is 440 for some reason.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-08-13 10:01
Another imortant thing that R13s having going for them is that they are relatively affordable and if you are fortunate to have a good dealer, you have a half a dozen to choose from when you buy one.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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