 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: zorba1977
Date: 2020-08-04 14:05
Hello,
I'm planning to buy a chineese contrabass clarinet, a copy of the old Leblanc paperclip model. Anyone has experience with theese instruments?
Thanks!
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2020-08-04 16:33
Where are you buying it from? Is this the Ripamonti?
And most importantly are you sure you want to deal with that? One of the best features of the Leblancs is the stiff metal the keywork is made from. It needs to be stiff and strong to stay in adjustment. The same cannot be said for most Chinese clarinets. The Cupronickel used in most Chinese clarinets is fine for smaller instruments where the keywork is not too long, but I would not trust a paperclip made from it. There’s just to many long levers and key arms to bend. Why not just buy an old Leblanc?
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: zorba1977
Date: 2020-08-04 17:52
> Is this the Ripamonti?
No, the only other "paperclip" contrabass clarinet I found is the model made by Frater Musical instruments and sold on Alibaba. It's made in cupronickel
Comparing the photos it seems the same of the Ripamonti.
> Why not just buy an old Leblanc?
Yes, but it's hard to find, do you know someone who sells one?
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2020-08-04 20:54
Just ask around and be patient. I got mine a few months ago for $3200, although it's a low D. They sell on Ebay ocasionally too. You can find low Cs for around $5000-$6000 if you are patient.
I would not trust it given that it costs $2000 unless you plan on fully restoring and modifying it yourself.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: zorba1977
Date: 2020-08-04 23:41
> I would not trust it given that it costs $2000
Yes, they are very cheap, but I don't know anything about the quality. Do you have experience with "modern" paperclip contrabass?
> unless you plan on fully restoring and modifying it yourself.
Probably also an old Leblanc model needs some restoration. Which is the material it's made of?
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2020-08-05 00:29
The Leblanc is made from forged nickel silver and brass wheras the Chinese instruments are made of cupronickel that was likely just cast. While you may need to restore an old Leblanc paperclip, you can at least be sure that the keywork is strong and well made, the same cannot be said for the Chinese version.
Having fixed dozens and dozens of Chinese instruments I can say with confidence that the quality of the keywork is nowhere near that of Leblanc instruments, which generally have very well made keywork.
Ultimately it's your decision, if you do get it please report back how it plays. I dobut anyone on here owns one of these so you would likely be one of the first "early adopters". Personally I think $2K is a lot to gamble with...
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2020-08-05 04:16
I'd like to add on to Jdbassplayer's comments. Generally I agree with what he wrote above, but sometimes circumstances cause us to have to go out on a limb.
My personal example: Earlier this year I decided to buy an English horn (cor anglais to the purists) for doubling, since I've become a thoroughly rotten 2nd 'oboist' in one of the local orchestras. Well, guess what? Just try to find ANY half-decent English horn, new or used, for less than, say $3000. Believe me, I tried. The average price I saw for a used one was around $5K, with new ones about double that. I spent several months looking.
One day I saw a Chinese, new-manufacture English horn on That Internet Auction Site Whose Name Shall Not Be Mentioned (TIASWNSNBM), for all of $750. Plastic body, silver-plated full keywork. I decided to take a chance on the Chinese instrument.
As a woodwind technician without fear of any mechanical device, I figured I could fix anything that might be wrong with the instrument. And that's how it worked out. Several issues out of the box rendered it barely playable, but after working on it for a couple of easy days, I got it to play quite respectably (well enough for my low skill level, anyway). Had hoped to try it out in public, but then COVID hit, so will have to defer any comments about how it sounds in a hall. All in all I'm pleased with the purchase, but couldn't recommend the instrument to a real oboist or a non-technician amateur player. The keywork is adequately stiff for playing purposes, but hopefully none of the metal will break because I suspect the previous poster is correct about the keywork being cast and probably unrepairable.
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Author: zorba1977
Date: 2020-08-05 12:39
Ok, a plastic model may be a valid alternative? An older Holton or a new Chineese model?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-08-05 22:24
Do bear in mind that plastic instruments do require a relative degree of lateral motion of keywork between pillars so the keys don't bind up when they get cold as plastic will shrink and expand far more than metal.
Metal bodied contras can have their keywork made to be a tight fit between all pillars and wooden ones will need slop on cross mounted keys as they move in and out with humidity changes.
The amount of slop on plastic clarinets of all sizes is relative to the length of the key rods or barrels (longer key rods requiring more end play than shorter key barrels) and the longest key rods on contras could have around 2mm of lateral motion.
People moan about this factor saying the factory has done a crap job of key fitting, but it's done out of necessity - if it is poor key fitting, then the end play will be variable rather than relative to the lengths of the key rods/barrels.
Parallel-sided point screws are best on plastic instruments so they can move in and out the ends of the key rods like pistons whereas keywork mounted between tapered point screws will end up rattling around as the gaps widen.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-08-06 22:18
If you do play in relatively stable climates, you can always do what Yamaha do on their YPC-32 piccolo G# keys and fit plastic spacers or shims to take up the slop between the ends of the key barrels or rods and the pillars or adjacent key barrels if they share the same section of a rod screw.
A low friction soft plastic like polythene tubing can be cut into shims or spacers easily by mounting it on a steel rod mounted in a bench or lathe chuck, setting the motor in reverse and trimming each shim or spacer using a sharp scalpel which will leave a clean cut and no waste.
I use small teflon shims cut in this manner (fron teflon tubing with a 2mm bore and 4mm outer diameter) to take out end play on sax rollers, but it can be done with keywork if you want to. The only downside is when the keys are removed, the shims will inevitably drop off, end up lost or mixed up unless you (or whoever fitted them) know they're there and can keep them in some sense of order in where they go.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2020-08-07 17:01
I use thin sheets of Teflon and punch “washers” out of it with a leather hole punch. I used several on my LeBlanc Paperclip Contra to reduce play and noise.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: zorba1977
Date: 2020-08-07 17:15
Thanks for info, do you know who made the Ripamonti Contrabass clarinet? Photo is identical to the one on Alibaba
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Author: thereallukasj
Date: 2020-09-29 00:49
Wanted to bring up this forum again, as I too have been considering one of these instruments. Just curious if anyone has had first hand experience with the chinese copy of the low c paperclip listed on Alibaba? I 100% agree with David and after owning many Chinese instruments, once they are appropriately set up, these can be nice instruments for the money.
Thank you!
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Author: blazian
Date: 2020-09-30 03:06
I'm also very tempted to buy one to try it, but then again I have no use for one at the moment. It will cost me around $2250 including shipping.
- Martin
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