 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-07-05 18:34
Brenda -
Please give us a report on the quality and consistency of the new Buffets you've been trying. As I'm sure you know, they used to be dreadfully inconsistent -- one great, the next one practically unplayable. When I picked out my R-13s in the mid-1970s, I had to go through dozens to find instruments that were in tune, responded well and had the tone quality I wanted.
Francois Kloc has claimed that the "Platinum Service" his people provide for all Buffets imported into the U.S. makes them consistent and all good. In fact, he has advised people not to buy new Buffets from European sources, because these instruments don't get Platinum Service.
What's your impression of how things are now?
Ken Shaw
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Author: Joseph O'Kelly
Date: 2001-07-05 19:18
When I tried out Buffet clarinets all of them came with the platinum service. rest. It was the few that played well that made me stick with Buffet but the oAlmost all the r-13s I tried were junk except for the few that stood out above the the other ones were pure junk. They played nowhere near what I would expect from "the legendary choice of profesionals."
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-07-05 20:44
Well, whew! Why do I feel a can of worms is about to explode all over the place?
I bought a new Buffet Festival for myself after play-testing several and decided it was quite a nice instrument. I also played several Festivals that had been on display and were pure junk. The one I bought has excellent intonation up and down the scale and a beautiful tone.
I have to say, I think the Leblanc Opus is the most magnificent clarinet around, but the Festival is the first Buffet I've ever wanted to own and keep for myself.
I also recently play-tested dozens of R-13s that were all pretty decent. I didn't get any that came from a discount catalog, or any that came "right out of a box," so I can't comment on those types of purchases. Mine were the dealer's top-drawer R-13s that he lets me play until I decide. I usually match bells and barrels at the same time and come up with a pretty good sounding R-13.
No junk in the ones I played. I was pretty shocked because, as I said earlier, my preference in clarinet is Leblanc Opus. And, the last 7 years or so I wouldn't touch an R-13 with a ten-foot pole. But, everyone wants the R-13--so I decided to give them another chance because I had heard they have made great improvements. The two I just purchased are quite nice. I must say I felt bad about dragging Buffet through the mud over their last several years of R-13s.
Intonation is quite good on the three Buffets I just selected. Workmanship is quite nice as well. I have to eat humble pie on it this time guys.
However, nobody touches the Opus for the most magnificent tone on earth!!!
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Author: Irwin
Date: 2001-07-05 23:51
And may I add that some of my best friends play R-13's!
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Author: William
Date: 2001-07-06 02:53
I have always felt that Buffets were much like Stradivarius violins--there were a lot made, but only a few "really good" ones. All Buffets (like the legendary Strads) can be made to play very well, with proper accoustical work, but there are still very few made that--for whatever reasons--have that special resonate, even tone throughout the registers and great intonation. I had a chance to buy such a Buffet in the mid-sixties while in college. It was the kind of clarinet that practically played itself--it just "sang" beautifully and with such remarkable ease of expression and sound. I turned it down, however, as it was a used instrument and had a slight (repaired) crack in the upper joint which my college clarinet professor said "could get worse and then you never know how it is going to play after that." I bought a new R-13 (fortunately, a great instrument) and my college clarinet professor bought the used instrument that I had rejected--and as far as I know, he is still playing it professionally. ( I did learn a lesson from that, in case anyone was wondering ) I agree with Brenda in my current prefference for the LeBlancs (I play Concertos) but it is still hard to beat the "top drawer" Buffet sound--it is the "sound" by which all other clarinets are still measured. It's like, it "rides like a Caddy." Good clarineting!!!!!!
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Author: Rene
Date: 2001-07-06 07:25
Can anybody explain the differences in the R13s? Especilly between the ones made of that wood dust mixture. I would think that in the latter case, with that material and new CAD machines, individual differences should level out.
I know that all lower level Buffets are made by Schreiber with CAD machines. And e.g. the B12 sound all one like the other.
Rene
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-07-06 11:27
NO clarinets can be fairly compared unless it is absolutely definite that the standard of adjustment or each of them is impeccable. That is very rare indeed on new instruments, and that includes top names.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-07-06 11:30
It is like comparing the handling of motor vehicles when they all have flat tyres.
Or comparing gymnasts who have a limb in plaster. Etc...
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Author: Lorie
Date: 2001-07-06 12:59
I just went throught the "new R-13" search with one of my students. What a mess! We tried several standard R-13's and most were junk. We did find one very nice one - bagged it up and took it home. I threatened my student with his life, should he not obsessively swab out this horn and try to keep it in a "stable" temperature. Well, despite my threats and all his work at taking care of his new horn, in ONE month that horn had F O U R cracks: three on the top joint and one on the bottom (barrel and bell were okay). We went back to the dealer, who was very understanding, and he agreed to let us exchange. Well, I must say that I was skeptical about the sound of the new "Greenlines" but after playing a bunch of them, we had the choice of replacement down to a Greenline R-13 and a Festival. The quality of that Greenline was fabulous and for the ability to swap even financially - we took the Greenline. My student loves this new horn better than the one that cracked. The resonance is great and the intonation is impeccable. Hardhead that I am, I had to hear two horns "blind" - and I actually picked the Greenline. Don't let anyone tell you those are not fantastic horns. Like all of the other top-of-the line horns - you have to play LOTS before you find the right one (kinda like finding one's spouse, as I told my student...hee, hee, hee!)
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-07-06 13:57
Lorie, I don't think I would say you exchanged "down" to a greenline--they're the same price and in some cases more than their standard counterparts. And the Festival is more expensive than the R-13 standard model.
I have to agree that a great sounding R-13 is quite a nice instrument--it doesn't have the powerful tone an Opus has, but it is a very beautiful sound. The one I just sold off the Sneezy classifieds had that beautiful sound. And, the even quality in all the registers with great intonation. Time will tell whether or not it is one of the great ones--Philip, its new owner, will have to comment on that.
The one I have right now is a very nice one as well. It seems to have very nice intonation, as does my Festival. In fact, I had sworn off Buffets---all Buffets--because of their intonation and bent toward a "thin" tone in the uppers. Yes, these can be overcome by much practice and mouthpiece, etc.---but for intermediate players it's easier for them to just get a good Leblanc--like say an Esprit--and concentrate on learning music instead of spending all their time voicing. I guess I'm a bit off the subject.
For the person who is dedicated to becoming a professional clarinetist, it's a good idea to have an R-13 to play--whether or not it is your prefered instrument. This just keeps you listening for intonation and working toward better sound-quality. Also, a lot of professional mouthpieces, etc. are made with the R-13 in mind.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2001-07-06 15:12
Have you ever tried the RC or the elite?
Reading this BB for about 6 months now, it seems to me that most people only trust the R-13 and the Festival (which is an evolved R13)
Buffet makes a few other models among which the RC a very popular instrument in Europe, which comes in a "Prestige" version.
There is also the Elite, which I have never tried, supposed to be a very good instrument too, but way too expensive.
I always found that the RC gave more volume and has a very similar sound with the Leblanc pro horns.
You guys have any thoughts on this or is this a R13 only zone ;->
I am not saying anything bad about Leblanc, I am just wondering why the R13 is such a best buy in North America when most people in Europe and especially France do not play it anymore.
-Sylvain
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-07-06 16:18
Sylvain, this has been discussed at length on the Klarinet List. Suggest you do a search there to find out what the many respondents had to say. However, there is no question that this BB has a U.S.slant on products (sometimes the slant agress withy the rest of the world, some times it doesn't). Best, mw
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-07-06 16:23
Several of us Tulsa-vicinity clists have, on loan-possible sale, 6 brand-new Buffet Vintages [shown on the UJ in script, and on the bell as R13v which were exhibited at the recent OU symposium. Of the 3, I now have, my good friend-fine clist says one is superior and is challenging us to pick it out, we will try!! Perhaps we will feel free to report here, I'm eagerly anticipating my own response! Wonderful appearance so far. Don
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Author: Phil Smallwood
Date: 2001-07-06 17:29
I'm the Philip Brenda is speaking of and I can't say anything negative about the R-13 I bought from Brenda. I'm going back to the clarinet after 22 years. I knew I wanted a professional clarinet and when I saw Brenda's advertisement on the Sneezy classified list I contacted Brenda. Boy am I glad I did! The sound is beautiful, key action is light and well balanced, and the intonation is flawless. This is not an exaggeration. When playing with the tuner the needle barely fluctuates. The tone is warm, supple, and well centered not thin and shrill. If anyone and I mean anyone is considering purchasing a professional clarinet I would suggest you contact Brenda. It's a bother to have clarinets shipped from a retailer and find that none meet your expectations. Brenda is able to try many, many clarinets and pick the best of the best. That's why I'm glad I've had the pleasure to deal with Brenda and I suggest others do the same. With all the talk about the Leblanc Opus maybe I should see if Brenda has one for sale. We can never have too many clarinets, right?
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Author: Irwin
Date: 2001-07-06 18:27
I second Phil's comments on Brenda. I bought my Opus from her and am in the midst of a love affair with it that will likely continue for the rest of my life. I also feel like I finally found the "holy grail" in terms of mouthpiece setup (Greg Smith Chicago mouthpiece, Eddie Daniels II ligature and Vandoren V12 3.5 reeds), but that's another story.
Aside from the fact that Brenda is honest and 100% reliable, the best reason to buy from her is that she only sells horns that she carefully tested and selected. To anyone buying a new horn, it's absolutely essential that you test several horns of whatever make and model you're considering, before concluding your purchase. This is verified by the threads regarding R-13's, but it also holds true for Leblancs, Selmers and all the rest. If this isn't feasible, whether because you don't trust your ability to make a good decision and/or you aren't physically proximate to a store that has several of your make and model from which to choose, then I recommend that you contact Brenda. You'll never go wrong.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-07-06 21:10
Gee, thanks guys!
I have to include that Phil and Irwin are two great customers!
But, I want to comment a bit on the Leblanc issue that Sylvain mentioned. First of all, I agree that there is far too much emphasis on the R-13 in the U.S. It's very hard to get people to look at anything other than Buffet R-13s. Obviously, as Phil will tell you, I like R-13s and enjoy playing them and selecting them for people and I think they are an excellent professional instrument. But--the Leblanc clarinets have been terrific instruments for decades and should always be considered when you're making a decision on an instrument.
I don't have any Opuses right now--and have play-tested several new ones that were unsatisfactory, so I don't plan to purchase any until I can find a good one. Then I'll let you know should one come along. Irwin has one that took me about three months to find.
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Author: Brandon
Date: 2001-07-06 21:20
First off, I hope that I do not step on too many toes here. I can be kind of frank in my opinions at times. But I think I am going to start something here that will stir things up! I noticed that with the talk of Opus clarinets there wasn't a single mention of Buffet's top clarinet, the Prestige(not counting the Elite). I have noticed that this instrument has the same directness of the Opus. But to me, the Opus has a much brighter sound. The Prestige plays with a more brilliant sound. Obviously, it is not dark. So, I compare the sound to these pros: Combs(Opus), Marcellus(Buffet), most Germans(dark, duh! Wurlitzer!) These guys are a few of the most recorded orchestral clarinets. I think Combs is a great orchestral clarinetist, but I think his sound is a bit bright, especially in the upper register. Just listen to his CD Orchestral Excerpts for Clarinet. Marcellus has a VERY brilliant sound. Plus, I love the German sound, such as Leister. Granted, I will say that Eduard Brunner does have a brilliant sound. But it still melts like butter! I have tried the Opus clarinet and while it does play well mechanically, I do not prefer the sound. Brilliance is a good thing. Brightness is not. So when I listen to orchestral recordings, I always try to find a recording with Marcellus playing. He is the one I try and emulate. I like Chicago of course, because I love Solti. But Cleveland is my personal favorite. As far as voicing goes, it is essential! That is why working on harmonics is important. I just took a lesson with Carmine Campione at CCM on that very thing! True, it is something that more advanced players work on, but that should not matter! That right there can help with the tuning. The upper register being thin is probably a direct result of the player not supporting the sound, not the instrument! Well, I am going to close with this...what I say is just my mere opinion! Don't write evil things because I dislike LeBlanc clarintets or criticize Combs' sound! If it is beautiful, do it!
Brandon
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Author: Irwin
Date: 2001-07-06 23:34
Brandon, your post is perfectly valid. Personal preference is exactly that, personal. That's what makes horse racing!
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-07-07 14:17
Brandon, let me mention the Buffet Prestige, which I have owned and played for many years along with my Leblanc Opus.
My Prestige was hand-selected at the Paris factory by my clarinet professor, Dr. Raphael Sanders, who was there as a soloist for the International Clarinet Symposium and took 6 of his fellow professors with him to form a "panel" for the selection. He and the professors played all the Prestiges that were available at the factory and then voted on the final choice that was to become my instrument.
Dr. Sanders is one of the finest clarinetists I have ever heard and also one of the most fanatical about "perfection." It is a beautiful instrument and, yes, I paid quite a bit of money for it--although the local music store sent him as an "agent" to hand select their yearly allotment of R-13s. Mine was the only Prestige.
I recently sold the Prestige to Bob Gardner because I prefered the Opus. I found the Prestige's upper range a bit "thin" compared to the dark, warm sound of the Opus. I also found the voicing of the Opus much easier on solo passages where I have to start in the upper range. I had more confidence on the Opus.
I've had many opportunities to get the Prestige back, but have never taken Bob up on that offer.
Many people like the Prestige and many people like the Opus. Some people drive Mercedes and some drive BMWs--both are good---both are expensive. It's a matter of personal preference.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-07-07 14:44
An interim report on the 3 Vintages is , as Ken Shaw said of F Kloc, all 3 are in fine shape, play easily, very well in tune with themselves and, with the longer barrels, in tune with FM classical music!! I have found slight differences among them in regard to matching pitches of alternate fingerings and one is superior re: our old friend, the notorious pinch [mid staff] Bb in clarity. Will "woodshed" one rehearsing the Wizard of OZ shortly and will report my and Tom's findings. Don
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-07-07 14:49
Don, interested in hearing about these Vintages. What kind of price are you getting on these?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-07-07 19:19
I'm in this only as an "evaluator", not selling and prob. not buying since I'm "wedded" to my LeB L7 17/6 and have only 3 Full Boehms if the extra keys are needed, plus a couple old but good wood 17/6s, enough?? I believe The Music Store in Tulsa is giving a small discount, down to about $2000. How does it compare with the big suppliers?? TKS for asking, Brenda, Don
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-07-08 14:04
I haven't priced any Vintages, so I can't really answer that. Perhaps others can tell us.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-07-08 19:45
Don, if those are hand-picked Buffet Vintage Clarinets then $2000 is a GREAT PRICE. An artist/player-selected Vintage at IMS was $2200 & @t Muncy was quoted to me @ $2500. Of course, those include (some) custom setup work ... I know that Phil Muncy puts them through his setup work. Lisa Argeris sent me (amongst others) a Vintage for $2200 which was incredible. I really liked it. It didn't have the PROJECTION or RING I wanted which I ended up finding in an artist-selected R-13. That's all personal preference anyway --- we all know that. Best, mw
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-07-09 14:48
Sounds like $2,000.00 is a winning price. If anyone out there is looking for one, they probably should contact you about the ones you've been testing.
The tuning on my new Festival is excellent. Even the alternate fingerings seem to be very close to each other in tone quality and intonation. It's the first Buffet I've owned that I can have the same confidence with the altisimo as when I play my Opus. The tone isn't as dark as the Opus, however--so there's that.
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Author: thomas
Date: 2001-07-11 19:39
Brenda, I hear always Buffet or Opus. For me the Opus had a very bright sound . Compare it with the Selmer Signature which is much more " dark" and has a little bit more resistance. Why does nobody mention this clarinet ( I am not personally involved , I play Oehler and a Buffet E13, but I am thinking about what boehm clarinet could be the best for me.
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2001-07-11 20:00
How does anyone feel about the Yamaha's? I have to admit that I play on a 72A and a Custom AE on b-flat. I think my 72 is a a tremendous horn, and my Custom is pretty good. Unfortunately I didn't have the opportunity to try a large number of b-flats. I bought my 72A in 1986 while a student in college and was lucky enough to try about 25 different horns, all top brands, and I picked this one. I imagine it is like with any brand, there are good ones and bad ones. Any other Yamaha players out there?
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