 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: zagor76
Date: 2020-07-03 14:37
Hi everyone, I wonder if you are curious about those new Syos mouthpieces.
They are 3d printed and you can go through all the parameters you want to adjust them to your own playstile.
I bought a signature model and I made a review and first impression video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU5tIk7NfKM&t=23s
And the second impressions here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSB9Kq5vwjo&t=46s
They have great customer support: I have been in contact with them due to the issues you can see in the first video and they send me a new one for no cost at all.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2020-07-04 01:26
It seems as if they are gearing this toward doublers or jazz players. A number of them have huge tip openings. I know lots of people like the sax pieces. Interesting concept, especially since there is one school of thought that high quality rubber is the key. This is a whole different angle
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: zagor76
Date: 2020-07-04 22:50
I am not so sure about that, you can shape the mouthpiece exactly the way you want. Not all the tip opening in the signature models are so crazy, but once again most of the artist are jazz musicians.
Rubber quality is surely important, but I have been playing on crystal for 30 years so what do I know...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seabreeze
Date: 2020-07-04 23:38
We should probably keep an eye on Syos. If they recruit more classical pros as advisers and testers, they may come up with something. It would also be good if we could try them before we buy; I have heard some complaints that the Syos pieces thus far have not been finely finished and may require more hand work to be acceptable. Plastic can produce good results but manufacturers seldom put much thought into the design and execution of plastic models intended for students and beginners. But the Fobes Debut model and Behn's Overture in acrylic play very well, and from Germany the ESM MK1, the AW pieces, and the many acrylic Wurlitzer models supplied with their clarinets are used by some professionals. Gleichweit is offering composites containing plastics in his (all professional) models.
Post Edited (2020-07-05 00:32)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: zagor76
Date: 2020-07-05 01:36
Well, they have a great customer support: you see a prove of that if you watch my reviews. If you shape a mouthpiece from the very beginning they have a return policy, in order to change things and improve your choices.
I think things will change completely when the bass clarinet mouthpieces will arrive: I know a couple of classical musicians that are in touch with them.
I think we should not blame the company, rather we musicians... we are not so keen in changes!
I am glad that a new actor is here, I fell that clarinet players have not so much to choose as saxophone players have!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2020-07-05 06:23
Quote:
I am not so sure about that, you can shape the mouthpiece exactly the way you want. Not all the tip opening in the signature models are so crazy, but once again most of the artist are jazz musicians.
I don't disagree with you. I realize that you can shape and design the mouthpiece as you desire, but at this point I don't see much that is in the ballpark of a close to medium classical style facing. In their custom section, the players listed for reference are not classical players. Given that info, it seems as if that is not their target audience. It would be interesting to see what they could come up with to fit the standard classical market, although there are many already geared to that.
Post Edited (2020-07-05 06:35)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: John Peacock
Date: 2020-07-05 13:58
I tried out one of these mouthpieces. I agree about their customer service, which is friendly and professional and tries to understand exactly what you're after. I told them what I currently play on, and even sent them some facing measurements. They claimed that for an extra fee they would make a truly custom mouthpiece that followed any curve you wanted to specify. But for the standard 249 Euro they give you a curve of their own design where you can adjust the tip opening and length. So that was all good. But the mouthpiece itself (which was made and sent quickly) was a bit of a disappointment. The finish was rather rough, and it didn't play anything like my existing mouthpiece even though the specification was intended to be similar. It was so far off that I just asked for a refund rather than taking up their offer of swapping for a new one with a tweaked design. And there was no problem with the refund. So overall I'd say this was a positive experience and it's worth experimenting, as these clearly work for some people.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seabreeze
Date: 2020-07-05 19:50
Syos does now have a number of retail distributors, including some in the US. Their company team boasts a Ph.D in acoustics and a Ph.D in cognitive science, as well as a webmaster and some product designers, but what appears to be missing is a classically trained clarinetist and a technician with a track record of successfully hand-finishing mouthpieces. They should bring someone like that onboard who understands why classical players need equipment that facilitates light, rapid, crisp articulation and smooth pianissimo entrances. Classical players could relay their desires to that technician to get a more suitable product. Jazz players normally don't need those qualities; they seldom have to play the scherzo to Midsummer Night's Dream and match the articulation of the flutes and strings in an orchestra. Jazz players swim in different waters. Of course if you swim in both waters, you need very versatile equipment.
Within limits, structuring your own sound is well and good, but you've also got to play the music in the intended style and match the characteristic style of the other players. An experienced mouthpiece tech knows exactly how to alter and finish a mouthpiece to help the player meet the actual demands of the music rather than just flattering the player into creating a personal sound. Too much attention to personal sound can imprison a player in a bubble of narcissism rather than promote professional competence and musicianship.
Post Edited (2020-07-05 19:59)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Pereira3D
Date: 2020-07-05 23:19
Hello, I'll start with the disclaimer that I manufacture 3D-printed clarinet mouthpieces among other clarinet products. I think Syos has a very interesting concept and seems to be great at tailoring the mouthpieces to the needs of their customer base. I also think that you're right in assuming that the customer base is more of the doubler/jazz scene.
The primary issue when making a dependable mouthpiece for classical players is the finishing. With jazz players embracing the extra flexibility of a larger tip opening and typically using softer reeds (I know this is just a generalization, but for the argument's sake), the mouthpiece can be more forgiving with a finish straight from the printer. In the classical realm, particularly for myself being a close-tip mouthpiece player, the very small layer lines alone would make the mouthpiece unplayable in my experience. This is especially so with my 3.5+ or 4 strength reeds. Classical players rely on the nuances and the balance between mouthpiece and reed. Even a light refacing goes such a long way to create a more reliable response and consistent quality of sound. The material selection for mouthpieces is also something that I believe will evolve with time when it comes to 3D printing. Lastly, I do believe the price tag is kind of rich knowing what they cost to manufacture via 3D printing along with no hand-finishing or cork costs, but I suppose if there's demand, then go for gold.
Quick side-note: I've noticed that having cork rather than O-rings, while more annoying, costly, and time-consuming to install, dampens the sound just enough to balance the 3D-printed materials very well. This may not be the case with hard rubber, so YMMV.
Ryan Pereira
Pereira 3D Clarinet Services
www.Pereira3D.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2020-07-05 23:58
Ryan makes good point about the nuance and subtleties of the needs of classical playing. For orchestra gigs, especially something with wide ranging demands I find that I need to be much fussier with reeds and make minute adjustments to them to optimize them. When I am playing a show or more "commercial" work I find that I can slap most things on and it will work fine. The same would apply to mouthpieces.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: zagor76
Date: 2020-07-07 12:40
Seabreeze, Let´s say that we have two completely different ideas of what it is to be a musician.
"Too much attention to personal sound can imprison a player in a bubble of narcissism rather than promote professional competence and musicianship."
This sentence is way too black or white. In my humble opinion is so much more nuanced, subtle, shaded.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seabreeze
Date: 2020-07-08 01:01
We probably have the same idea. Syos is giving players working in the commercial and jazz fields exactly what they need. Classical players need something else. Imagine you are trying to pass an audition to get into a classical orchestra or opera orchestra. You need a mouthpiece that will get you through the demanding excerpts these organizations put in front of you from such composers as Beethoven, Stravinsky, Carl Nielsen, Ginestera, Mozart, Kodaly, Schubert, R. Strauss, etc. You've got to play the notes, rhythms, and dynamic markings the composer put on the page in accordance with the accepted composer's style and the interpretation a conductor wants. In actual performances you've got to project out of an opera pit or in a big concert hall without electronic amplification, and still blend with woodwinds, strings and other instruments.
Shaping a Personal Sound in this setting is not a high priority. This is a different set of requirements from those of a creative jazz player deftly improvising the blues over a mike, and backed with a rhythm section in a night club or a big band doubler putting down the sax and picking up the clarinet to play a swinging jazz chart. Both are demanding situations, but the exact nature of the demands is different.
Syos could have some of the superb French classical clarinetists tell them what they are looking for in a mouthpiece. Let those players tell them how important shaping your own sound is to them or whether they might assign greater value to shaping the sounds intended by the composers in the works they perform. Accept what they say and then shape a mouthpiece to fit their actual desires and needs. They could ask Philippe Cuper, Patrick Messina, Philippe Berrod, Nicholas Baldyrou, Jerome Voisin, Jerome Comte, Florent Heau, Olivier Patey, Sylvie Hue, Pascal Moragues, Michel Arrignon (who reportedly has used plastic mouthpieces), and Paul Meyer, for example. All these players have decades of experience as soloists, chamber music players, opera and orchestral members. With their input Syos could possibly make classical mouthpieces that players worldwide might consider a better alternative to Vandoren and Selmer.
There is of course no reason why Syos should be pressured into making mouthpieces that appeal to classical players. Either way, I wish them well.
Still another future is possible. Many have complained that clarinetists worldwide are beginning to sound the same. With Buffet Tosca clarinets and Vandoren BD5 and B40L mouthpieces abounding, the old national and individual differences have all but disappeared. You can't tell French from American, English from Italian, Russian from any of those, and everybody is playing with a darker, more covered, quasi-Germanic sound. So maybe Syos can bring more diversity to this broadening grey field of sound and style (if that is what it is)? Maybe, but they will still have to talk to lots of classical clarinetists to get to that point.
P.S. I like the way James Evans sounds on the blue Syos for New Orleans style jazz. But I'm not convinced that mouthpiece would be a first choice for the Hindemith Clarinet Concerto or the Messiaen Quartet for the End of Time.
Post Edited (2020-07-08 22:06)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: farabout
Date: 2021-10-01 21:36
I am immensely disappointed by SyoS: the mpc which they customized for me was way out of specs. The only good thing about them is their return policy.
At the same time, I have all the praises for the same spec mpc that was 3D-printed by Pereira3D.
I cannot resist wondering what these 2 companies do differently, once they start punching respective 3D-printer buttons?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Pereira3D
Date: 2021-10-03 23:26
I'm glad it's working well for you! Like I mentioned a while back, I do believe properly facing the mouthpiece after printing is not just helpful, but imperative to getting a 3D-printed blank to function the way it needs to. Aside from that, my blank is a slightly modified 3D scan of a tried-and-true mouthpiece I've used in many professional settings, so having a reliable starting point is also nice for manufacturing.
Ryan Pereira
Pereira 3D Clarinet Services
www.Pereira3D.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: farabout
Date: 2021-10-04 01:05
Pereira3D wrote:
>I do believe the price tag is kind of rich knowing what they cost to
> manufacture via 3D printing along with no hand-finishing or
> cork costs >
Sure Ryan, you're very welcome. And here are my 2 pennies regarding Syos business model: in the context of their no-risk return policy, the high price of Syos mpcs might IMO be a direct consequence of their relatively high failure rate due to an inadequate QC.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: pauline_syos
Date: 2021-10-05 11:36
Hi @farabout,
We certainly do have a low failure rate, otherwise we wouldn’t be able to have such a return policy. Maybe you had an unfortunate experience, and we’re sorry for that. Also, it’s true that we are more specialized in non-classical music, but we sometimes we still work classical players, and with success.
Also for the price, what you consider as expensive is the custom mouthpiece price, (where the mouthpiece is adjusted based on the musician request and feedbacks), but we also have standard models that are more in the price range of standard pieces, you can check them if you’re interested: https://www.syos.co/shop/clarinet/originals
Best,
Co-founder of Syos, www.syos.co
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: farabout
Date: 2021-10-05 18:52
pauline_syos wrote:
> Also for the price, what you consider as expensive is the
> custom mouthpiece price, (where the mouthpiece is adjusted
> based on the musician request and feedbacks), but we also have
> standard models that are more in the price range of standard
> pieces
>
Apples to apples:
Standard 3D printed mpc
Syos $185 (at today's currency conversion rate)
Pereira3D $95
Custom 3D printed
Syos $255
Pereira3D $130
Ceteris paribus (incl. reasonable assumptions that both businesses operate with equivalent profit margin rate and at a comparable demand for respective mpcs) the price premium of Syos might be covering the failed products. Unless at least one of 2 afore mentioned assumptions is wrong.
Post Edited (2021-10-05 19:48)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
