 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: PeterD
Date: 2020-06-11 21:41
Hi nice to say hello, thanks for the interest.
I have JUST acquired a very ancient, I think the modern word they use today is Vintage Clarinet.
I play Clarinet but this is VERY OLD and in need of much TLC and a complete overhaul with leaks galore presently unplayable so I haven't a clue what key it is however from it's bore size which is 15mm I suspect it's a C.
The model is:
Excelsior
Sonorous
Class
Hawkes & Son
I think the forunner of the modern Boosey and Hawkes the build number is 15648
Unfortunately there is no mouthpiece and the barrel although ancient is a more modern Boosey & Hawkes and a shade darker than the clari.
The bell possibly original is very 'used' and worn and I cannot read the detail the length 105mm.
It 'feels' plasticy but guess it's not, the keys possibly nickel but I'm open for correction it's certainly not as shiny as my Backun Silver Keys. Pleased to offer any further detail and possible photo's if required.
Any help would be really appreciated Thank You Peter
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-06-12 01:03
They were made in both grenadilla (sometimes with a black lacquered cocus or rosewood bell) and ebonite for the tropics and parade bands. If it's got a greenish look to it, smells a bit like rotten eggs (due to the sulphur content) and no visible wood grain, chances are it's ebonite.
The keywork is unplated nickel silver which is still the same base metal used for most woodwind instrument keywork - they can be polished to a nice bright finish, but they will tarnish. Nickel silver is a very pale green/yellow colour - not as deep yellow/gold as brass but it will dull and tarnish all shades of orange, red, brown and green.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2020-06-12 01:13
Your Hawkes "Sonorous" is probably in Bb and I suspect it may be an Albert key system. If there are 2 keys for the r/h pinkie it's an Albert, it there are 4 or 5 then it's an Albert. The body material if it is not wood will be hard rubber and the keys will be either unplated nickel-silver or nickel plated brass. If the keywork has a slightly yellowish tinge then it will be the latter. These were quite a decent instrument in their day, which was up to around 1934, possibly a bit later. The B&H barrel will be OK as the later B&H instruments were of similar dimensions. A modern French-style mouthpiece will work OK. If you can find a B&H 926 mouthpiece it will be a good match. My first instrument was a Sonorous Albert and I remember it fondly.
Tony F.
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Author: PeterD
Date: 2020-06-12 11:11
Thank you Tony informative reply thanks. Well as it has 4 RH pinkies so to me it points to a Boehm you say "it there are 4 or 5 then it's an Albert."I believe 2 being Albert ??
As far as looks are concerned it is EXTREMELY smooth making me think it aint wood and I tried to polish a ring on the bell and it's definitely nickel a little stained.
As far as tuning is concerned I thought it may be C on account of its wider bore but will probably have to wait and see, the length says to me its Bb but I've also read they advertised the 'wider bore' clarinet so I am more confused than ever. The age I suspect around 1934 from a record of a similar numbered clarinet but apparently that was with Silver Keys sounded very nice too.
Thanks again
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Author: PeterD
Date: 2020-06-12 11:29
Thanks Chris I answered Tony's reply first apologies
I tend to be swayed towards it being 'from its high polished finish' that's it's Ebonite, I have since found with a quick polish of the Bell tenon ring it is definite Nickel and age stained as well however I may be able to improve on that.
Well as far as smell is concerned it smells of typical "old age", musty and dank the case too which is original but battered to hell so its going west.
It's a pity the pads are gone and not possible to play they really are bad, some "in pieces" mainly the bladder pads some leather which incidentally still look reasonable, but ALL will be changed.
Would you know if the ORIGINAL clarinet had leather or bladder pads ??
Thanks again Chris
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2020-06-12 12:49
"it there are 4 or 5 then it's an Albert."I believe 2 being Albert ??"
As I frequently am, my brain was a bit behind my fingers. (I play like that sometimes!). Of course, 2 keys is Albert or simple system, 4 or 5 keys is Boehm. The C clarinet is considerably shorter than the Bb, so unless yours is short it's almost certainly a Bb. Mine still had the original pads and they were brown leather.
As it seems to be agreed that it's ebonite, on no account wash the body with hot water or it will turn an interesting shade of chocolate brown. Cold or just-warm water only. If yours is badly discoloured contact me via my email and I'll tell you how to get it back to a lovely even black.
Tony F.
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Author: PeterD
Date: 2020-06-12 18:46
Great informative reply Tony thanks.
I know what you mean by your brain 'dragging' I'm over 80 so suffer quite a bit haha. Well from the length compared to my Backun it will be a Bb definitely this I'm pleased as I have no use for a C as opposed to Bb.
Interesting you say they were brown leather this is good as I have recently taken delivery of an assortment of leather pads so it will be leaning towards originality. There are a few damaged screws that I will have to be careful with but I have applied oil to ALL screws and will leave it a week or so to soak in rather than snap what's left of the screw. I will be changing all screws just hoping they are the same screw thread as my stock and not some weird thread I have fingers crossed they are also a stock length.
Thank you for the advise on cleaning the body this has been taken on board I think I can live with the colour which is a very dark brown however it would, no doubt be nicer/better Black. The only downer is a quite deep scatch on the lower section that needs attention however I 'may' be able to disguise it with a furniture repair filler ??
Thanks again for your help
Peter
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-06-12 20:01
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I'd be inclined to repad it with leather pads. I was given this wooden simple/Albert system one which I assume is still in original condition (but missing its C#/G# key) and it has white leather pads that are stitched in the centres like bassoon pads.
The odd thing with this one is it has a stud pillar under the lower joint F/C touchpiece and a thick cork under the Ab/Eb touch when it would've been better to put the stud pillar under the Ab/Eb touch and use a much thinner key cork. Any form of stopper under the F/C touch is only asking for trouble if that key gets bent as it won't close.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2020-06-12 20:09)
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Author: PeterD
Date: 2020-06-12 23:49
Thank you Chris
Yes definitely leather.
Interesting description on your findings and your thoughts on the operation and WHY's the previous owner does such strange things he/she must have had a reason or just 'experimenting' !! Thanks for the Pics.
A pity with the missing key work probably irreplaceable but you may be lucky and find another US Albert with the same keywork who knows ??
Regards and Stay Safe !
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-06-13 00:05
These old Boosey&Co or Hawkes&Son clarinets are often found languishing in antique shops, junk shops and eBay for next to nothing if in a state of disrepair, so I'll see if I can find a knackered out one as a donor. A lot of them are High Pitch, but the C#/G# key is still the same on them.
The stud/stopper pillar in the wrong place was done when it was made as I've seen others where it was under the Ab/Eb touch as it ought to be. The bell is grenadilla and more dense than that used for the main body joints, but has shrunk over time as the bell ring is rattling around.
It also comes in its original brown leather quiver-style case that's in excellent condition (and complete with a marching lyre), but not the best case for any clarinet as it's only split into two halves. It has the original wooden mouthpiece as well.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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