 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-05-27 23:52
Hi,
I wondered if anyone else is coming back to clarinet playing after a c-19 infection (suspected or confirmed)?
I had my first lesson today after 8 weeks of the infection and I ran out of oomph after 14 minutes and my lungs still hurt 10 hours later. I know I shouldn't ask a GP, as they're busy and I'm basically fine, but I wondered if anyone is the same situation to compare notes, or knows anything about lungs and breathing and clarinets all at the same time?
I'm a plant scientist and I know just enough about lungs and respiratory physiology to know that I am out of my depth trying to figure this out by myself.
Thanks!
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2020-05-28 00:29
I think that if you can't see a medical doctor, you should at least try to call one to get reliable medical advice. Clarinetists who are not also medical doctors (regardless of how well they may play or how much they know about the instrument) are unlikely to be good sources of medical advice.
Post Edited (2020-05-28 00:30)
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2020-05-28 01:35
I strongly agree with SeaBreeze. All we’ll be able to do is provide anecdotes from others we know.
I’m glad you’ve come through the virus. You would not be making an imposition on a GP If you phoned in and described your experiences.
Good luck!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: m1964
Date: 2020-05-28 06:47
SunnyDaze wrote:
"Hi,
I wondered if anyone else is coming back to clarinet playing after a c-19 infection (suspected or confirmed)?
I had my first lesson today after 8 weeks of the infection and I ran out of oomph after 14 minutes and my lungs still hurt 10 hours later. I know I shouldn't ask a GP, as they're busy and I'm basically fine, but I wondered if anyone is the same situation to compare notes, or knows anything about lungs and breathing and clarinets all at the same time?
I'm a plant scientist and I know just enough about lungs and respiratory physiology to know that I am out of my depth trying to figure this out by myself…"
I think you overdid it.
Ideally, you would want the doctor to listen to your lungs and make sure they are clear and you don't have any fluid there. But this is not an ideal world.
I would not take any lessons at this point. I would start blowing long notes, from 5 to 10 min. maximum, at a time. However, you could practice long notes 3-5 x per day, just keep it short.
You would start increasing the practice time slowly, like 1-2 min. every couple of days, as you can tolerate.
Try the above and post back here in a few days, so others could learn if the tactics worked. It should.
Good luck!
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-05-28 18:07
Maybe I will try a "stop before it hurts" approach and see how that goes. I think the GPs may have more pressing problems to deal with just now. I think a softer reed might be good too.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-05-28 18:08
Do you think a Vandoren classic 1.5 is about the softest sensible reed I could try? I usually play a V12 2.5 or a rigotti gold 2.5 light.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-05-28 18:44
I just tried that and with a 1.5 reed there is a very clear "time to stop" point after about 5 scales. I will try again tomorrow.
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2020-05-28 19:40
Maybe this might be helpful:
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3074988/coronavirus-some-recovered-patients-may-have
As far as I see transitory restrictions in lung function might occur. It is not yet clear whether long term effects might remain. Cardiovascular exercise such as swimming is recommended. I'm sure playing the clarinet, but of course in cautious dosage, would also be fine. If I myself (as an old doctor) was affected I'd have lung X-ray and spirometric follow- ups done.
Post Edited (2020-05-28 19:43)
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-05-28 20:23
Hi MichaelW,
Thank you for that. The idea of starting back to exercise fits with what I'm finding. It's as though I've got really wildly unfit suddenly and need to start from scratch.
Are you in the US? I'm not sure that we have follow-ups here unless something really bad has happened. I'm in the UK.
Jen
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Author: BobW
Date: 2020-05-28 22:10
I would not be hesitant to call your Doctor
That is our Job ( I am a physician)
Hope you continue to recover
Bob
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2020-05-29 01:11
Hi Jen,
If, for example, you had , but not quite, recovered from a heart attack, your doctor probably would recommend you to have the state of your coronaries checked. I think that with persisting symptoms after an acute pneumonia, checking lung functions also would be recommended, and I suppose in the UK that would be handled in the same way as here in Germany.
Michael
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-05-29 13:42
I have booked a telephone appointment. :-) I will ask and see what the plan is. Thanks!
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-05-30 14:22
Hi,
I asked a doctor and she says that the burning feeling in the lungs that I have is something that is being reported with covid and it seems to take 3 months to go away. She said I don't need an x-ray as I haven't had a cough, and they would wait longer to see if breathlessness goes away before trying an x ray.
She said she thought it would be okay to play as long as I stop before it starts to hurt. However, since my lungs hurt before I play, I think that means that I need to wait a bit longer before restarting. I'm on week 9 of symptoms, so it's probably only another month.
On the plus side, the ABRSM said that they might allow people to do theory exams from home with an invigilator this summer, so I am going to spend the time working towards my Grade 5 theory exam instead. That will be a good use of the time.
Thanks for your help! I hope this helps others who may be coming along after me.
:-)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-05-30 17:04
"invigilator?" I had never heard this word until I read it here and looked it up. Does this person have to come to your home while you're taking the exam?
Karl
Post Edited (2020-05-30 17:18)
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-05-30 17:33
Hi Karl,
Yes that's right. That's the idea that's being suggested anyway. In a normal exams the invigilator would go to the school and meet with lots of students. In this case, they would just go to someone's house and watch that one person sit the exam.
Jen
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Author: michele zukovsky
Date: 2020-05-31 10:13
i would not play, if your lungs still hurt after ten hours.
give yourself time to heal.
michelezukovsky@gmail.com
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-05-31 11:03
Hi Michele,
Thanks, yes, that's what I decided. I'd rather lose a month now, then end up with some kind of long term damage.
Jen
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Author: m1964
Date: 2020-05-31 18:45
SunnyDaze wrote:
"...yes, that's what I decided. I'd rather lose a month now, then end up with some kind of long term damage."
Hi Jen,
The suggestions you would get on this board most likely would be overprotective since people replying to you are musicians, not health professionals.
Even a medical doctor (MichaelW) may not be able to give you the best advice simply because it is difficult to evaluate your problem without listening to your lungs and heart.
The most common problem caused by the Covid-19 is Pneumonia, which, in turn, may cause pulmonary fibrosis. It may be beneficial to start lungs mobilization early to prevent the fibrosis or minimize its extent.
In addition, it is possible that after taking very shallow breaths for a few weeks, your muscles and connective tissues of the abdominal area are stiff/tight, so when you take a deep breath, you are stretching tissues that have not been stretched recently, thus producing pain.
If possible, try to determine if your pain is superficial or deep, and possibly make a face-to-face appointment with an MD, who would be able to give you better advice once he/she can hear your lungs and your overall condition.
P.S.
I am not an MD but do have a doctoral degree in health-related field.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-06-01 02:35
Hi m1964,
That's really interesting that you say that because that is just what it feels like.
I can't have a face-to-face appointment unfortunately, as we are still locked down. I also asked the private hospital about x-rays and even they are only doing urgent ones. Nothing is available just now for people like me who are just keen to get back to a clarinet. (I completely understand that, as things have been very difficult here.) The GP said that if I wasn't right in two weeks I could ring again and they would have another think, so that's good.
I think that what you say about stretching makes a lot of sense to me, as it is the feeling of stretching my lungs that causes the pain. It's tricky to know whether to mobilise my lungs, as you say, or to let them recover and wait until the pain is gone. At the moment my body is saying a very definite "no" to me, so I suppose that is the best guide I have available.
I do worry a bit though, as I came to the clarinet after a wrist injury wrote off my violin and piano playing, so I'm keen not to do my lungs a mischief as well.
Thanks so much for explaining that view of things. I'll add it into my calculations. :-)
Best wishes,
Jen
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Author: m1964
Date: 2020-06-01 07:36
Well,
In the absence of your lung sounds, no one would be able to give a personalized advice.
If your lungs say "No", I would wait a week and try again, long notes for 5 min. or even less.
Most of the people who had pneumonia are encouraged to use an incentive spirometer.
A wind instrument provides a similar function, with increased resistance in case of reed instruments.
If you have a friend who is a nurse or physician assistant, they could listen to your lungs too.
Changes on X-ray may be present in asymptomatic patients, so X-ray alone would not tell you if/when you can restart playing.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-06-01 09:11
Thanks, yes, I think I'll just have to wait for a bit. That seems okay.
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Author: eac
Date: 2020-06-02 19:40
Here's another vote for an incentive spirometer also know as a volumetric exerciser. You should be able to get one online for not much money. It shows the volume of air the user moves with a given breath so the user can track daily use and improvements. Start slow and don't push it but you can track your progress more objectively than by playing your clarinet. All muscles get weaker without use, even those we use for breathing so it may take a bit to get back into shape.
Liz Leckey
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-06-03 17:22
Hi Liz,
Thanks, I'll look for one of those. Maybe a stethoscope too. :-)
Jen
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Author: m1964
Date: 2020-06-03 17:51
SunnyDaze wrote:
> Hi Liz,
>
> Thanks, I'll look for one of those. Maybe a stethoscope too.
> :-)
>
> Jen
Get an amplified one - stethoscope
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-06-03 18:09
Amplified stethoscopes seem to cost a lot of money. I found an incentive spirometer though.
Is this the sort of thing?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01CEHZM9U/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AE9XB82DOV866&psc=1
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Author: eac
Date: 2020-06-03 23:34
exactly that sort of item. i bought one from amazon in the us as follows:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00RR5VJAQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Liz Leckey
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-06-04 05:20
Hi,
Thank you for that. I've ordered the same one as yours. Interestingly though, now that I know I'm meant to work harder to take a really deep breath I have tried it and it's surprising how much difference it makes just to really try hard.
Jen
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Author: m1964
Date: 2020-06-05 08:48
"Amplified stethoscopes seem to cost a lot of money."
Jen,
I was not serious - those are for medical doctors mostly, 😉
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-06-05 16:53
I just visited my clarinet and there is a layer of dust on the case and a spiderweb across the top. Crikey. Back soon hopefully though.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-06-15 15:09
Hi,
I just got my incentive spirometer in the post. My 10 year old son can get the piston up to 2500 and my husband can max it out at 5000 long before he runs out of air. I had a go, and the piston does not move when I suck it. That's not a covid thing, it's just me. That's why I'm learning the clarinet, to make my breathing muscles stronger. Clearly there is scope for improvement anyway.
Is it usual to get light-headed when using the incentive spirometer? I don't think I would fancy doing it too many times in a row.
Thanks for the suggestion, it's really interesting to try it.
Jen
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-06-15 15:17
I just checked online and the light-headedness is to do with breathing too quickly, which makes sense.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-06-15 16:30
This machine is really interesting. I think it could be used as a diagnostic tool for chronic hyperventilation as people in that state would get light-headed much faster than those who are not. It's good because there is currently no sensible diagnostic tool for that available.
Also my son points out that the machine can also be used to train the muscles that are responsible for breathing out, just by turning the machine upside down and blowing into the pipe.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-06-19 21:05
This is good if anyone else is coming back to playing post-c-19:
https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavirus/wp-content/uploads/sites/52/2020/06/C0388-after-care-needs-of-inpatients-recovering-from-covid-19-5-june-2020-1.pdf
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-06-19 21:06
Also this:
https://www.blf.org.uk/support-for-you/keep-active/exercise-video
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Author: m1964
Date: 2020-06-20 06:58
SunnyDaze wrote:
"Hi,
I just got my incentive spirometer in the post. My 10 year old son can get the piston up to 2500 and my husband can max it out at 5000 long before he runs out of air. I had a go, and the piston does not move when I suck it. That's not a covid thing, it's just me. That's why I'm learning the clarinet, to make my breathing muscles stronger. Clearly there is scope for improvement anyway..."
Hi SunnyDaze,
There are 2 types of incentive spirometers:
Those that register the amount of air inhaled and those that measure air exhaled.
The 1st type is more common. Patients often focus on inhaling the maximum amount of air and forget that it is only possible to inhale if the lungs are empty. Meaning you need to exhale the maximum amount of air before inhaling again.
Try this: before inhaling through the spirometer, exhale as much air as possible, then inhale through the mouthpiece, slowly trying to keep the little ball floating in its marked area, not shooting all the way up.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-06-20 23:51
Hi m1964 ,
Thanks for explaining. That was actually what I did. However, my original reason for taking up the clarinet was to try to fix a condition called chronic hyperventilation and I think it's possible that the incentive spirometer may make that worse (to the point where I can't use it at all.)
It's still really interesting to have the machine though, as it gives me a way to test my progress in treating the condition.
I think if I am making good progress then I will be able to use the incentive spirometer without getting light-headed, so that's a good thing.
Thanks so much for your help with this.
Jen
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-08-15 20:04
Hi,
It turns out that my lungs are once again brand new after four and half months post-covid recovery, and I am back to playing without my throat or chest hurting. I thought others might like to know if they are following in my footsteps.
I had a chest x-ray and it was all fine.
Hope all others are doing okay out there too.
Jen
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Author: Plonk
Date: 2020-08-16 02:57
SunnyDaze wrote:
> Hi,
>
> It turns out that my lungs are once again brand new after four
> and half months post-covid recovery, and I am back to playing
> without my throat or chest hurting. I thought others might like
> to know if they are following in my footsteps.
>
> I had a chest x-ray and it was all fine.
>
> Hope all others are doing okay out there too.
>
> Jen
In fact I was thinking about you today and wondering how you were getting on! Glad to hear you're recovered but sorry it took so long!
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-08-16 13:43
Hi Plonk,
Thanks for thinking of me. It's very nice to be back. :-)
I've been practicing lots of theory while I couldn't play so I've made lots of progress in spite of it all, which is nice.
I hope all is going well there.
Jen
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Author: RKing
Date: 2020-08-16 16:59
Jen,
Thanks for the update and congrats on your recovery! You have survived a very serious illness and I am happy to hear some good news about this disease.
This virus is still going strong in too many places, so please be careful and stay safe.
Ron
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-08-16 21:15
Hi RKing and ml964,
Thanks so much for your encouragement. I really appreciate you visiting the thread to welcome me back. It seems like such a long time since I could come on here and chatter about my clarinet.
RKing - I'm being really careful about covid still, as I know I could get it again and pass it on.
Take care there, and I hope you are all enjoying your clarinet playing.
Jen
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Author: RKing
Date: 2020-08-16 23:26
Jen,
I know how you feel. I have been gone for 16 months while I recovered from my last fusion surgery (right wrist). But I feel great now and am very happy I finally did it.
I had been in pain for the past 20+ years and was forced to stop playing many times to let the pain die down. Then I would start playing again and try to plow through it, only to stop again after a few months. Finally, I decided that surgery was my only choice.
My situation was not even close to what you just went through, but neither one of our adventures sounds like a lot of fun. I simply hope I can enjoy the rest of my music life without any more issues.
Please take care of yourself and stay safe,
Ron
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-08-17 18:56
Hi Ron,
I'm really glad that your wrist is better. 16 months is a really long time to be patient. I hope you are really enjoying your playing now.
Jen
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