 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: eaman
Date: 2020-05-06 17:18
Hello, I'd like to start with clarinet so I'm looking for a beginner friendly instrument for a low budget like ~200 euro.
Reading on line I got the idea that the mouthpiece and the legatura should be very important so I've already ordered a Fobes Debut from USA (I'm in Italy) and I guess I should pair it with a Rovner Dark (maybe I could wait a bit for it).
Now about the instrument, this is what I'm looking at:
USDED:
1) Amati ACL 212 , I've found a couple of for like 150e, they are made of wood and the bell is plastic
2) Amati ACL315, from a shop for 200e, all made of wood, they say that it's been "revisioned"). http://www.amatiinstruments.com/klarinette/Klarinetten/acl_315_b-kl..php
3) Yamaha YCL 250: 250e
4) Yamaha YCL 255: 290e
Brand New:
5) Thoman - Startone SCL- 25 Bb, 140e, https://www.thomann.de/it/startone_scl_25_bb_clarinet.htm
6) Thoman - Startone SCL- 65 Bb- Clarinet, 190e, improved model with "better keywork and sound" according to the seller
So I'm looking for any advice:
Do you know if those Amati are decent instruments with no major problems or should I rather get a new Startone from Thoman (that I do trust)? Do consider that I'm going to use the Fobes Debut mouthpiece.
Or is it just a waste of money and I should get at least one used Yamaha?
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Author: m1964
Date: 2020-05-06 17:48
eaman wrote:
> Hello, I'd like to start with clarinet so I'm looking for a
> beginner friendly instrument for a low budget like ~200 euro.
>
Hello,
I am in the US, I do not think Amati sells here so I cannot say anything about their current line.
Back when Amati clarinets were produced in the Czechoslovakia, they were basic student instruments, made of wood though. Keywork was OK.
Thomann's Startone looks like a generic-made-in-China instrument if you can call it that- I would avoid those.
Yamaha probably would be your best choice although I never had one myself.
Do you have a teacher? Or do you know anyone who plays clarinet or sax professionally?
If you are buying a used instrument it would be nice having someone who can play test instruments, with you.
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Author: eaman
Date: 2020-05-06 18:02
> m1964 wrote:
> Yamaha probably would be your best choice although I never had
> one myself.
Thins is that those Yamahas don't come from a shop so I won't be able to send those back in case of any problem, nor I can bring those to a luthier (if it's not absolutely necessary). I have to trust the private seller when they say that they are fine.
Startones have "good reviews" on Thomann, it's the largest shop in Europe and I trust it, at least I could send it back if it looks like a toy.
> Do you have a teacher? Or do you know anyone who plays clarinet
> or sax professionally?
> If you are buying a used instrument it would be nice having
> someone who can play test instruments, with you.
>
Nope. I play violin, keys and guitars.
I would like to try a wind instrument as I'm enjoying a Xaphoon, there's no way I can go to a teacher now or a shop.
I get that the Yamahas have the best resell value yet maybe I'm hoping that an Amati (made of wood) would be a decent deal for a beginner, or a Startone may suffice.
Thank you for your reply
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-05-06 18:30
Yamaha without a doubt - they're a tried, tested and well respected make.
Amati clarinets are very hit-or-miss depending on their age, the wood isn't always of the best quality as is the keywork and general build quality.
Any off-brand Chinese clarinet is going to be pot luck and problems may arise very early on.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-05-06 19:34
Yes, the Yamaha! It is the care (time, ability etc) of the fabrication that counts, not the material (per se) so you can easily find a really really terrible wooden clarinet as well as fine synthetic body clarinets (more expensive of course) that sound wonderful .
As for repair, it won't be long before ANY clarinet will need some adjustment, so you need to know where you can find a good woodwind repair person no matter what instrument you buy or how much you pay for it. Even in the United States, there are not that many really top repair people, so we often wind up sending our horns back and forth for repair. It's the nature of the business.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: eaman
Date: 2020-05-06 19:45
Paul Aviles wrote:
> Yes, the Yamaha! It is the care (time, ability etc) of the
> fabrication that counts, not the material (per se) so you can
> easily find a really really terrible wooden clarinet as well as
> fine synthetic body clarinets (more expensive of course) that
> sound wonderful .
I guess (coz I'm no expert) that is the case: at first it was like the plastic bell makes no substantial impact, then the whole body as the mouthpiece could be the most important part.
I know Yamaha makes all kind of instruments with substantial quality,
sadly clarinets are quite expensive and over my budget so
I'm looking for alternatives
> As for repair, it won't be long before ANY clarinet will need
> some adjustment, so you need to know where you can find a good
> woodwind repair person no matter what instrument you buy or how
> much you pay for it.
There's a shop in my town that seems really good _and_ really expensive,
with traditional instruments you get no half measure: it's super good
or some guitar expert that "gives a look to it".
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2020-05-06 20:11
Either of the Yamahas would be my first choice. Amatis vary considerably in quality. I don't know anything about the Startones.
Tony F.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-05-06 22:48
Are there any used Yamahas for sale that you know of?
Provided they've been well maintained, they will be ideal for you. Only factor in for the cost of a service just to be on the safe side as some seller's idea of a service and what an actual service is are often and sadly very different things.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: eaman
Date: 2020-05-07 00:03
Chris P wrote:
> Are there any used Yamahas for sale that you know of?
Yes, from 250-300.
> Provided they've been well maintained, they will be ideal for
> you. Only factor in for the cost of a service just to be on the
> safe side as some seller's idea of a service and what an actual
> service is are often and sadly very different things.
That is something I can't evaluate, I know that a guitar should take some ~40e for a setup (that I'm able to do myself btw, I've got tools and craftmanship) but I don't know what a "standard setup" for a clarinet is worth. I've just bought a Xaphoon 2 weeks ago :D
I can tell that a Yamaha would have a solid resell value, yet if I spend 2 times the money for one and then I have to spend another half of it to make it worth it then it's a problem. I've found 2 Yamaha from private sellers, far away from me, if I get one and it's a dud it's on me.
If I get a Startone from Thomann and my luthier says it's unmanageable junk I can send it back no question asked, almost the same for a 200e Amati ACL 315 as it would come from a shop.
BTW: I've found this comparison of a Startone + Yamaha + Buffet: https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=es&sp=nmt4&u=https://www.culturasonora.es/instrumentos-musicales/clarinete/&usg=ALkJrhh77M5rWyOQYW2SZ9iBHnoQu6x1Hg
Do you think it makes sense? [Spoiler Allert] It says that the Yamaha is not as good as it costs, the Buffet is the best for sound, the Startone is OK but lacks with sound (yet I would have a Fobes Debut for it).
Thanks again
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2020-05-07 04:09
There's a reason the Amatis and Chinese clarinets are so cheap. I know you're leaning away from the Yamaha but in this case it's the most reasonable option. Having overhauled dozens of Yamaha plastic clarinets I am always happy to work on them due to the excellent fit and finish. I have yet to find a "dud". By comparison the last Amati I worked on had lots of fit and finish issues that weren't obvious until I took it apart. The fact that you can get a full Boehm for that price should be an indication of the quality you get. Chinese clarinets are even worse, even the "good ones" still tend to need a lot of fitting and adjustment. Yamaha student clarinets are worth every penny of what they cost and with a good mouthpiece the tone is excellent.
-JDbassplayer
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Author: eaman
Date: 2020-05-07 04:36
jdbassplayer wrote:
> Yamaha student clarinets are worth every penny
> of what they cost and with a good mouthpiece the tone is
> excellent.
Thanks for your advice, as a matter of fact, if I manage to find a used Yamaha from a shop there would be the advantage of warranty and resell value, I guess that a new Startone is not the kind of thing you can re sell very well.
Yet I can't find (in Italy) any used Yamaha from shops, now I can see a YCL 250 for 260euro or a YCL 255 for 295euro, both private sellers.
There's a Clarinetto Sib Buffet Crampon B12[1] from a shop for 310euro, warranty and revised - tested, it looks like a competent shop, should it be maybe better than a Yamaha 250 / 255?
1. https://artigianamusicale.wixsite.com/ripara-clarinetto/product-page/clarinetto-sib-buffet-crampon-b12
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-05-07 07:11
I've owned student Yamahas and a student Selmer. Both are fine. I prefer the fell of the Yamaha regarding the pinky keys.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: eaman
Date: 2020-05-12 16:30
Finale: I finally got the used Yamaha YCL 255, I guess that it will keep its value in case I want to re sell it and meanwhile I have a decent trouble-free instrument.
Thank you all for your input.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2020-05-13 01:48
A good choice that I don't think you will regret.
Tony F.
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