 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: lexxmexx
Date: 2020-04-17 11:06
This is probably a very noob question.
When playing in keys like D major on the clarinet, which fingerings would you normally use when moving between E/B and F#/C# ?
E/B: left pinky, F#/C#: right pinky
Or
E/B: right pinky, F#/C#: left pinky
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Author: AndyW
Date: 2020-04-17 11:57
either way is fine, it’s best to know both. Depending on the note before or after ,one fingering might be easier.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-04-17 12:21
Traditionally one would use the Left pinky for "B" and move to the "C" on the Right (or more accurately have both down for "B" in a Cmaj. run and just REMOVE the Left pinky for "C").
I think this is so because the original fingering systems (still on German Oehler clarinets) there is ONLY a right hand "C" option.
Now, this seems to then extend to the movement to the "C#." On German Oehler clarinets this becomes more convenient because just like having both pinkies down in the above example for movement to "C," on Oehler you have both pinkies down for the "B" and just lift off the Right pinky to sound the "C#." Jack Brymer actually points this out in his book "The Clarinet."
Of late I have preferred using the right to left (your second example) series on Bohem because as a right handed person it helps to build that stamina in the left for those instances where there is no choice.
So in summary I'd suggest being comfortable with both........and extend that to other fingering options throughout the horn. Having the flexibility to use multiple fingerings with ease only makes your technique more fluid.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-04-17 17:09
I agree with the answers so far. But there is the caveat that you ask about keys "like D Major." The advice to be fluent with both combinations but to normally prefer LH B - RH C or C# still works in A Major (only one more sharp than D) but breaks down once you have to deal with D# in E Major. At that point (and as you add more sharps) the combination B-C#-D# is normally done R-L-R since there's no left hand D# on standard Boehm clarinets (it's available as an add-on or a special feature on some clarinets). But there are always exceptions to every rule, and sometimes you have to do B-C#-D# with a slide L-L-R. The important thing is that a listener not be able to tell from the sound what fingering you're using.
Of course, all of this applies to the notes a twelfth lower (E-F# and E-F#-G#).
Karl
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2020-04-17 17:48
Good post, depends on the next few notes. Mainly the need maybe for the right hand pinky D#, unless your horn has the left D# pinky key.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-04-17 18:03
Bob Bernardo wrote:
> Good post, depends on the next few notes. Mainly the need maybe
> for the right hand pinky D#, unless your horn has the left D#
> pinky key.
>
Or, if C#/G# on the left hand gets mixed up in it.
Karl
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2020-04-17 19:13
Sure Karl! No perfect scenario, depends on the actual notes to determine the best fingering. Once in a great while, meaning a very unusual situation, a player may need to side the right picky to hit the next note. Thankfully this doesn't happen very often. I can't think of any pieces off hand, because it's been too many years.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: r small
Date: 2020-04-17 19:48
Here is a fingering puzzle: what would be the optimal fingering for upper register D#-C#-B repeated (G#-F#-E in the lower register)?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-04-17 23:15
If you have a LH Ab/Eb lever, you can do D#-C#-B-D#-C#-B as either:
R(D#)-L(C#)-R(B)-L(D#)-R(C#)-L(B)
or
L(D#)-R(C#)-L(B)-R(D#)-L(C#)-R(B)
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: r small
Date: 2020-04-18 00:29
I used to have a Leblanc LL with the left hand Eb/D# key (also articulated G# and forked Bb). Nice horn I wish I still had. The LH Eb does come in handy on some of these fingering puzzles. But I've found that sliding works well too. I mostly play the Selmer Presence these days and it has nicely shaped key work for sliding.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-04-18 00:43
Whenever I get a horn with a left hand Ab/Eb lever, I remove it ........most obnoxious invention.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-04-18 01:16
Very good question and not necessarily a noob one. I agree with:
-- know both ways fluently.
--it (may) depend on which notes follow (and which come before).
Will add:
--If the preceding or following note involves a note where only right hand fingers move, I use the left (E/B) then right (F#/C#). It's easier to move fingers on one hand than to coordinate moving fingers of both hands.
--if it's for a trill, I start with the right pinky held down and trill with the left one.
Trilling using a left hand finger is easier and can be done faster because of arm position and possible slight arm movement when trilling. This is do to the right arm/hand "anchoring" the instrument. If all that makes sense.....
Interesting side note (no pun intended) if you want to follow all this---
I learned the "traditional way" of using both pinkies together for B, then lifting the left to get C, as Paul A. points out.
--As a young kid I learned F#/C# first with the LH pinky. Then of course I had to learn the RH E/B to go between the two.
--later on when I learned the RH pinky fingering for F#/C# this was new and strange for me, requiring a lot of practice to get used to it.
I guess which you learn first may depend on the teacher.
Regarding the sliding of pinkies (R-R, L-L) as discussed: I figured out a cute little trick while in college. If you get a chance a bar or two before, lick the pinky that is to slide. I haven't done that since mid '70s......
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
Post Edited (2020-04-18 02:00)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-04-18 02:49
"Whenever I get a horn with a left hand Ab/Eb lever, I remove it ........most obnoxious invention."
It's necessary on any instrument with a low Eb - how else can you do a low Eb to Ab slur without it?
And besides, the duplicate keys (LH F/C, RH F#/C# and E/B keys) on clarinet are a relatively new invention in the developmental history and especially the mid 19th Century redesign of the clarinet as most of us have come to know it in its Klose-Buffet 'Boehm' system form.
I reckon it should be fitted as standard to all clarinets from plastic beginner models upwards as the option to use it or not is entirely up to the player and more often than not, having to add one to a clarinet for a player that wants it added to an instrument without one is far more costly than if it was already factory fitted.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: lexxmexx
Date: 2020-04-18 07:23
Very good advice from everyone, learnt a lot here, thanks a lot.
Just another question here, which combination would you unconsciously use when sight reading a piece of music for the first time?
Are there some kind of rules to follow, or I really have to practice hard to be equally fluent on both combinations?
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-04-18 07:34
More good questions.
Me, with sight reading, I may go back to the L then R pinky since that's what I learned in maybe 1965. But I think it may depend on what I had for breakfast?
Sight reading ability probably varies more according to one's ability to look ahead than which fingering you use. If you're really good at seeing what's coming up 2-3 bars from now you may be quite adept at choosing which fingering fits best, or even if one of those "slides" will be necessary. I'm quite adept at that, but not as good as I'd like to be.
Fingerings:
The best rule to follow is to become fluent with every fingering and all the alternate fingerings. Sometimes go through an exercise using fingerings and alternates that you would not use for practical reasons when performing. Mix them all up. Sometimes I even play below the scale B & top line F# with the flute fingering (3rd finger hole RH). On long notes I at times use this while performing as I find it has a fuller tone. It also makes the ring finger work harder, as it is the least flexible of the three.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
Post Edited (2020-04-18 07:46)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-04-18 16:34
And now you get to questions that can throw a concert pianist! Just ask a really good pianist why he uses a certain fingering and watch that pianist start to have an identity crisis!
:-)
I have been breaking down my poor sight reading for years. For me, I have come to the conclusion that if you think of every dot in front of you as a NOTE NAME (rather than a certain physical combination of fingers) then you free up your mind to come up with a fingering solution in real time.
But to nail it on the SECOND (and subsequent iterations) look (if there is any question which fingering to use) I'll make a pencil notation which to use.
Funny enough, as I go through exercises from the past (Kroepsch, Stark, Baermann) I find myself erasing past versions and putting in new fingerings.....or going back after a week....or coming up with a third or even fourth alteration (particularly in the altissimo or when a venting is at stake).
............Paul Aviles
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2020-04-18 16:54
In sight reading, if you're familiar with scale patterns then you may recognize them in what you're playing, and then you'll go the right way more or less automatically. Otherwise, taking E/B on the right in ascending passages in sharpier keys may work more often than the alternative, but exceptions abound. Practice switching sides during notes; sometimes it's necessary anyway, and it can save you when you guess wrong.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-04-18 17:39
lexxmexx wrote:
> Just another question here, which combination would you
> unconsciously use when sight reading a piece of music for the
> first time?
>
Probably LH B - RH C or C#. But usually if I see a D# following the C or C#, I'm routined enough to use RH-LH even at first sight.
> Are there some kind of rules to follow, or I really have to
> practice hard to be equally fluent on both combinations?
No. The conventions that exist aren't rules, as though there will be someone swatting your hand if you do something "wrong." The point of the conventional use of "LH before RH except before D#" is that it's convenient (and most of us learned LH B and RH C before we learned the alternatives). There is some advantage in the more direct physical connection between the RH F/C key and the pad it moves. The linkage between LH F/C and the pad is less direct and can go out of adjustment more easily.
The ultimate rule is that there should be as little as possible evidence of the playing mechanics in the sound that results. Using alternate fingerings where they're more convenient generally gives a more fluent result, so practicing the alternates gives you a better ability to choose the way that will give the cleanest execution with the least effort. If a player breaks the "rules" and no one hears it (whether it's in a forest or not) no one cares.
Karl
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-04-18 22:08
Great advice kdk! Smoothness. The audience cares not what your instrument's mechanical difficulties may be.
Another thing about sight reading is to (obviously) concentrate the best you can because you only sight read something once. The second try is "practicing".
If you play enough years you will find it harder & harder to find something new to play, so take advantage when it does happen and concentrate.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2020-04-19 03:36
>>>>sight read something once. The second try is "practicing".
Yes totally agree! There are or is an exception. A lot of auditions require sight reading, the ones that win auditions, often, but not always, the winner knows the piece, (have played the piece before). Yes I'm jumping ahead just a shade from the original post. But I feel the need to add we should know most of the difficult orchestra pieces we often see at auditions. When I was in the Air Force there was this one guy who could read anything. Never missed. Another player who shocked me was Arnold Brilhart. He too was an animal. Both players didn't have the best sounds, but when you can play the sound is pretty much second. Rhythm and hitting all of the notes of course rakes first.
Practice sightreading everyday, unless you are one of the few gifted, like Brilhart.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2020-04-28 08:53
I made it a point to practice all my scales and arpeggios both right and left handed (start with the right pinky, then start with the left). There are a few you have to do one way or the other, but you can usually do both. The point is to practice both combinations a lot. It trains your brain to think both ways and not to get stuck on the right or left. The left hand keys are a pain because they are always out of regulation, the leverage isn’t as good, and most people are right handed, so it takes a lot of practice.
- Matthew Simington
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