 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: ninjaaron
Date: 2020-04-07 21:44
Hi. First post.
A couple years ago, I picked up a toy clarinet for my birthday because I've always loved the sound of the instrument, and I play a bit of tin whistle, recorder, flute and some other stuff. This is the toy clarinet: https://www.nuvoinstrumental.com/products/clarineo/
I messed around with it for a while and had fun, but I put it away as I got interested in other things.
So, now, in the midst of being stuck at home and bored out of my gourd, I was thinking about getting a shawm. Specifically, I was playing my ocarina and pretending it was a shawm. Then I was like, "dang, I bet that plastic clarinet sounds more like a shawm!" so I got it out again and have been having a lot of fun playing it while stuck at home.
At the same time, I ordered a chalumeau from Thomann. This:
https://www.thomann.de/intl/thomann_chalumeau_maple_xaphoon_clarineau_saxonette.htm
So I'm playing all these things, and it's great, and I think, "man, I should get a real clarinet."
Which clarinet should I get? I'm not German, but I live in Germany, and low and behold, they got a whole other kind of clarinet over here! (I think my toy clarinet is German system, too) They also have plenty of Boehm clarinets, so I have that choice to make. My impression is that Boehm system is a bit easier and more flexible, and Oehler system is more if you're looking for the specific German sound. (I heard someone say that Boehm clarinets "have no soul"--which I naturally thought was absurd, as someone who plays a white plastic instrument.) My instinct is go with Boehm, but I'd be happy to hear from others on this. I really like Klezmer and middle-eastern clarinet playing, but I also like jazz and classical. I can't imagine myself actually playing a lot of jazz and classical because I have slow fingers and like things that are easy to play, but who knows? If I ever preform on it, it will probably be in a church setting. I already play e-guitar and (occasionally) whistle there.
So anyway, I'd like to get a clarinet. Probably Boehm, but if someone has a good reason why Oehler or Albert (and the reason doesn't involve the world "soul"), I'd be glad to entertain that possibility as well. I'm looking to spend ~1000 euro, which is ~$1000 for the purposes of this exercise.
Also, this may sound crazy, but if anyone is making good quality clarinets out of a high-quality plastic like polyacetal or something, I'd be interested in that. I really appreciate the low maintenance and imperviousness to humidity that plastic instruments have. I'm pretty firmly in the "it's the player, not the instrument" camp, provided the instrument isn't defective. However, wood is also fine. I just like plastic a tiny bit more.
PART II: The reed thing.
So I got my chalumeau, but I also ordered a Légère 2 1/2 reed to go with it because I figured the stock reed on a $30 instrument probably wouldn't be great. Little did I know until earlier today that there is a difference between a German reed and other reeds. I guess I should have guessed, but I didn't. This chalumeau has a Boehm mouthpiece, but I ordered a German reed.
The stock reed was really easy to play, but the sound was pretty bad and it was difficult to play in tune on the higher notes. Really easy to bend notes, though. The Légère sounds amazing by comparison, but it is much, much harder to play. It also feels like it requires more air? is that possible? Would it be better to get a Boehm reed instead, or does it not matter, so long as it works? Should I work up to a 2 1/2? I guess my lip will get used to it eventually.
-------
Hold my beer while I play this shawm.
Post Edited (2020-04-08 01:19)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2020-04-07 22:41
As per the Albert, Boehm, Oehler thing - In the context of what you're planning to use it for - I think any one of the systems would work just fine.
I play Albert now (used to play Boehm). The move from Boehm was super easy, and I like Albert more. I tried going back for short stints on Boehm, but find it clumsy and the keywork is "too close together" for me. I play mostly old-time jazz...and hymns on Sunday. My old Alberts wouldn't work well in an Orchestral setting though...unless surrounded by other period instruments.
Having said that, there's nothing wrong with whichever choice you make - they are all well-tested and used systems.
As per plastic...have you considered metal?
Fuzzy
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ninjaaron
Date: 2020-04-07 23:05
I didn't know there were metal clarinets! My experience with metal flutes and whistles is that they are affected by temperature quite a bit, but my experience is mostly with very small bore instruments (tin whistles), so maybe it's not an issue with a clarinet? I actually prefer a dense plastic like polyacetal to metal because the density and rigidity is almost identical to African blackwood.
But really, any material is fine. It's just a slight preference for the low mantanance and reliability of synthetics, but it's no big deal.
-------
Hold my beer while I play this shawm.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-04-08 00:10
There is the Ridenour Lyrique 576 for about $1000 US dollars made of hard rubber and tunes quite evenly across the spectrum.
http://ridenourclarinetproducts.com/lyrique-576-bb-clarinet.html
I spent my formative years on Boehm (as an American) but switched to Oehler after graduating college (I wanted to do this in college but the Wurlitzers order took much longer than I had originally thought). So I can speak to the "unspeakable soul" thing. They not only tune remarkably even from the very bottom to the very top, but they also some how convey the same evenness of timbre (which to this day is a bit of a mystery to me) across their range. As much as it would be easier to say it just sounds different, I'd say there is a unique quality to the sound no matter how badly you play them (and boy would I know) that cannot be replicated by a Boehm clarinet, and if you like that sound, nothing else will create it.
..............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ninjaaron
Date: 2020-04-08 01:14
Thanks for the info, Paul! That rubber clarinet looks like just the kind of thing I'm looking for.
Regarding the Oehler vs. Boehm thing--what you say sounds reasonable. I'm probably not as picky about the tiny details of the timber, but I'm pretty maniacal when it comes to things being in tune, so if an Oehler system is better for that (and I've heard this claim elsewhere), that's certainly something to consider! The only question now is where can I get a rubber Oehler!?
-------
Hold my beer while I play this shawm.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2020-04-08 02:01
Hi Aaron,
It’s not really as simple as „Oehler System = darker ‚German‘ sound“, or even better im tune. There’s also Reform Boehm and then there’s enough „pure“ Boehm clarinets that follow a more „German“ bore concept. Not to contradict Paul, but there’s so many possibilities for one’s setup nowadays!! That being said, if you’re new to the clarinet, it doesn’t really matter, I’d say.
What does matter is a good mpc/ reed combo and of course a decent instrument, be it ebonite, ABS or wood.
There’s virtually no German System, let alone (full) Oehler non-wooden horns, so Boehm is the only alternative.
But boy, there’s some really fine ones nowadays. My favorite would be the Buffet Prodige. Order one from Thoman (or any other place) for 500€ and you’re good to go. Better mouthpiece, maybe a wooden barrel later and it’ll last you quite a while! If you’re already in Germany (as am I ) it doesn’t really make sense to order a Ridenour. Customs are no joke and the € is weak already.
If you like, I’ve got a „resonite“ Bundy Bb clarinet for very little.
Best regards,
Christian
Post Edited (2020-04-08 02:05)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gatto
Date: 2020-04-08 03:54
Usually you get a good Boehm clarinet for a much lower price than a comparable german/Oehler clarinet. I guess, if 1000 Euro is the maximum, it would be hard to get a german system clarinet.
The only case where you should really consider to play the german system is if you plan to work in a german (or austrian) symphony or opera orchester (and then you need to be a veery good player). Otherwise it shouldn't matter. I am german myself and a late starter for the clarinet and am completely happy with the Boehm system, I never considered to buy a Oehler clarinet.
Besides, I guess it is possible (with suitable moutpieces etc.) to sound on Boehm in a way very similar to the "german sound".
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-04-08 07:22
I'll state the obvious from North America.
Buffet R13 if you want to spend thousands.
Most models of plastic, etc. clarinets play fine. Yamaha, Selmer,etc. and prices can be in the low to mid hundreds (dollars).
I use Vandoren 2 1/2 reeds.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ninjaaron
Date: 2020-04-08 17:52
Thanks for all the input, everyone!
Kalashnikirby wrote:
> My favorite would be the Buffet Prodige. Order one from Thoman (or any other place)
> for 500€ and you’re good to go. Better mouthpiece, maybe a wooden barrel later and
> it’ll last you quite a while!
That seems like a decent option. Any recommendations on the mouthpiece? I have two more Légère reeds on order--a 2 and a 2.5 (and it looks like Légère are supposed to be comparable hardness to Vandoren). I guess those should do to go on with. Can always try other reeds later, but I have no idea what to look for in a mouthpiece.
-------
Hold my beer while I play this shawm.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2020-04-08 23:02
I use a Gleichweit (of Austria) B7-1 with a 3.25 Signature European Combo - and I've tried MANY.
But as a way of getting started you'll do just fine with a Vandoren - try the BD5 and BD4, they're (imho) templates for the sound you want. Heck, the BD4 looks to have the same tip opening like my B7-1, so for 105€, it's a great deal. However, the Gleichweit is made of higher quality ebonite, which benefits sound and playing characteristics.
These mpcs all work best with the European Signature Cut. You can use the exchange program if you don't have them yet. IMHO, you don't need to get too crazy about finding the ideal mpc right at the start, and contrary to what some might say here, Vandorens are just fine for the price.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-04-09 03:28
I like closed mouthpieces for the classical approach so I'd favor the Vandoren M13 or perhaps an ESM MCK-1.
................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gatto
Date: 2020-04-09 04:53
I think the Buffet Prodige sounds like a good idea. If it will turn out that you really enjoy clarinet playing you can upgrade later, when you have the money. (But then I would not go for the R13, rather the RC or similar, which is much more popular in Europe.)
The already mentioned Vandoren BD4 is a very good mouthpiece (also the BD5 is). It is my favorite in the moment. Reed strength depends on your strength. I would as a beginner, maybe, start with a V21 in 2,5. If you already have a stronger embouchure, then you can take strength 3,0 or even 3,5.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2020-04-09 11:22
Yeah.. just don't worry too much about an "upgrade" instrument now. Even in a good concert band, I wouldn't be afraid to use the Prodige. With a good barrel and mpc, it might even perform as well as any E13.
And IF you want a wooden clarinet, there's plenty of other fish in the sea. I regret having paid 3k€ for my RC, that's for sure.
BTW, Legere reeds have the tendency to be 1-2Hz lower in pitch, so consider that when looking for a barrel upgrade.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gatto
Date: 2020-04-09 15:41
I would not *start* with a plastic reed. Only after having collected more experience (with mouthpiece, strength of reeds etc.) I would consider it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2020-04-10 19:43
Well, our guy has already ordered them, so he’s got to work with those. 2-2.5 strength is a good starting point with the mpcs mentioned above, why shouldn’t these reeds work for a beginner?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gatto
Date: 2020-04-10 19:59
Okay, since he already ordered them, he can try. I am not using plastic reeds myself. But as I understand, it is not so trivial to find the right mouthpiece-plastic-reed-ligature combo. AND, as a beginner his embouchure will change/improve a lot in the first time. In my opinion he would be more flexible with a collection of cane reeds of various strengths and to learn all the subtle techniques for a well-working embouchure. In my opinion, only after such a development and in a more stable status he can truely deceide whether his plastic reed combo works well or not. But of course, he can try...
@ninjaaron Maybe I have the wrong impression. How old are you?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ninjaaron
Date: 2020-04-21 19:57
@gatto I am 35* years old, but believe me that I've absurdly immature.
*35 and a half ;-)
In any case, I have Légère 2, 2.5 and 3 at the moment. However, as a grown-up I have enough money to afford to buy as many different reeds as I like, so I can experiment. The 2.5 seems to be working relatively well at the moment, but I'm still at the beginning here.
Most of my practice is focused on embouchure at the moment. I have enough experience with whistles, flutes, recorders and other things that the fingerings come pretty naturally.
-------
Hold my beer while I play this shawm.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-04-22 00:51
I agree with not starting on a plastic reed. I use Vandoren 2.5s and a Legere 2. I was told to go with a half strength lighter than your wooden reed with a Legere and I think that was good advice. I don't use my Legere when performing--just not good enough.
The first Legere I bought was a 2.5 and it was too hard. I have to line up the top of the reed almost exactly in line with the tip of the mouthpiece to get the flexibilty I need. I use a VanD 5RV mouthpiece.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
Post Edited (2020-04-22 00:55)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ninjaaron
Date: 2020-04-25 12:49
Well, I got my clarinet (the Prodige), and you guys were right about the reeds! I don't find the Légère reeds to be too much stiffer than the Vandoren reeds, but they do sound much different. I got a pack of Vandoren 2.5 and 2, and I think I prefer the 2.5. The 2 is easier to play, but it also seems easier to squeak, and the sound isn't as smooth.
The Légère reeds have an interesting sound. It makes me think about a muted trumpet kind of. It's not really a bad sound, exactly, but it's definitely not the normal clarinet sound!
-------
Hold my beer while I play this shawm.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
