 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Karen J.
Date: 2001-07-03 17:13
While doing a routine surf for R-13’s on eBay yesterday, I ran across something very disturbing. Someone had copied a picture of Brenda’s (clarinetgrammy) auction item and had used it for his own auction listing! Brenda has since de-listed her horn and is working with Ebay to stop this guy.
In the meantime, be warned, this auction is highly suspicious! . . .
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1443884098
Maybe this guy really DOES have a clarinet to sell, but didn’t have a picture of it and thought it would be all right to copy someone else’s. OR maybe not . . . either way, be careful.
If he is a scam artist, he’s not the smartest cookie in the jar!. Copying and using a picture from a ACTIVE auction! They (the bad guys) normally copy a picture and use it once the auction they copied it from has closed. Harder to track that way.
Besides, how many out there think that Buffet actually made a “special edition purple” clarinet??? Raise of hands . . .
Karen
San Jose, CA
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-07-03 18:06
Last year I saw something suspicious on eBay, along the same lines but somewhat different. Two different auctions (both active, about 3 days apart) for the same brand of clarinet, from two different sellers in different parts of the country. Neither ad had a photo, but the two ads had identical text --- word-for-word. I guess the second seller copied the first seller's text verbatim. I didn't detect any action from the eBay management, as both auctions continued to their respective end dates.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-07-03 18:40
Thanks to Karen, fellow Sneezy, I was alerted to this problem before it went too far. It steams me to think of someone who may be trying to scam people (however, he might be legit--just a dishonest person--if you can call that legit) using a photo I took on my Sony Mavica of a brand new R-13 I had spent hours hand-selecting to sell a PURPLE R-13 that probably doesn't even exist. Yeah, like they make purple R-13s.
I sent him an email and told him it was an infringement of copyright laws (which it is) and I owned the photo and the clarinet and could easily prove it from the serial no. and the original floppy disk. I asked him (nicely) to remove the photo or disclose that the photo was not of his clarinet. He hasn't responded yet, but I also reported it to eBay and they promptly took up the case and have already notified him he has infringed on copyright laws and he needs to remove the photo and disclose the truth about the item or they will shut his auction down.
It may take a day or two, but I opted to complete the infringement complaint against him, so it will be taken care of.
The big deal about it was that I know people who have been "taken" in by stuff like this and it really bothers me because people lump honest eBay sellers into the pot with people like this guy. Maybe it was a mistake and he thought you could just "borrow" photos and there would be no problem.
I can't thank my friends and fellow Sneezies like Karen enough for keeping watch for stuff like that. Some parent or kid who's saved his/her money for an R-13 could easily get ripped off by this kind of seller.
I removed my clarinet from the auction block for now until this clears up.
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Author: Karen J.
Date: 2001-07-03 19:39
Update . . . the seller has revised his auction to say that the papers in the "box" do not apply to that particular clarinet. Okay . . .
Karen
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-07-03 20:16
He did not say the photo was not of his item. He implies that the papers don't go with the clarinet---not the same thing. He needs to make it plain that the bidder is not going to get that particular clarinet minus papers.
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2001-07-03 20:31
Brenda, don't the "Mounties" have a fraud-squad. They might want to take a look at this guy. He's giving a lovely city a bad name.
Bob A
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-07-03 20:36
I've filed the copyright violation papers on him, so we'll see what happens from there. His description doesn't even make sense. How could a "still in the box" clarinet have a purple bell and the rest of it be faded? Even if there happened to be such a thing as a purple R-13?
I don't know about the Mounties. I'll wait. May have to send the Texas Rangers, though. Hope Chuck isn't too busy. 
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Author: madvax
Date: 2001-07-03 20:47
I've had both pictures and text plagiarized from my auctions several times. Its particularly annoying (and probably confusing to eBay bidders) when the plagiarized auction runs at the same time. In the past, after contacting the seller doing the copying, the seller usually just does not know how to take a picture, or they like the text in my description.
Is it fraud?...probably not. Is it misleading to the bidders, and rude to the other seller...I think so!
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-07-03 21:06
According to the legal forms eBay just sent to me a few min. ago, it's illegal and is considered fraudulent practice. Just because you're an amateur doesn't excuse the practice of "borrowing" photographs without permission. I did contact the seller and asked him to remove the photograph because he did not have my permission to "borrow" it.
I have to run and fill out these forms and then fax them back to the eBay dept that handles this kind of complaint.
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Author: madvax
Date: 2001-07-03 23:17
Brenda,
I really appreciate the eBay info. Please keep us posted and "go get'em".
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Author: David Kinder
Date: 2001-07-04 05:17
How about that Vandoren R-12 mouthpiece? Sounds like a real winner, since there is no such item!
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-07-04 14:17
You know, that's why I'm making such a point about this. Everything in his ad sounds like a joke! Of course, hopefully it will be obvious to people--but you never know. If a parent is shopping for a child and hasn't a clue about clarinets and mouthpieces they could be taken in by the nice looking photo and think they're getting a good thing.
I finished all the papers and faxed them (as they requested because they needed a photo of my signature) to the office that specializes in copyright infringement and fraudulent practices. They urged me to hurry because it might take a couple of days to process things and they want to shut the auction down before it closes out. I had to register the photo, sign an affadavit that it was mine and I had proof, etc. Then I had to file against the specific auction.
So, at least the clarinet community can keep watch that this sort of scam stuff doesn't "rob" people who are thinking they're getting a nice R-13. We need to run more of these suspicious people out of the woodwind:clarinet section of eBay. If we take care of it, kind of like a neighborhood watch, we'll cut down on some of this stuff.
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Author: David
Date: 2001-07-05 00:35
I recently searched eBay and couldn't find it. I didn't search very hard, of course, just browsing, but I didn't come across it. They had very interesting neon-colored plastic clarinets on it instead, which looked very legitimate. Well, green and blue clarinets are more believable than a Buffet purple-tinted item. Honestly, you hear of the weirdest people over the Internet
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-07-05 02:44
David,
Click onto the link that Karen provided in the first part of this topic. I guess you meant that you had a hard time finding the eBay purple Buffet. Of course, it's not purple, it's a stolen photo of my Buffet R-13. We wonder if the guy has a clarinet at all--and if he does--surely it isn't purple. Well, he could be color-blind. There's a thought.
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Author: David
Date: 2001-07-05 15:11
I see. Yeah, that guy is pretty stupid.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-07-05 17:43
I'm still waiting on eBay to take his auction off the block. Well, at least he doesn't have any "takers" yet!
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-07-05 18:51
eBay is in this thing for EBAY ONLY! I like what eBay does if they find somebody cheating --- they suspend them for a week & then reinstate. If they find somebody _shill bidding_, they warn them. If they find somebody who has reneged on 3 auctions, they suspend them for a week & reinstate.
eBay makes money by charging Sellers a fee. They could generally care less if they get their $$$. There is much written about this. This fellow paid eBay a fee for his auction(s) ... yup thats PLURAL & eBay likes the loot.
eBay may state otherwise in its rules, but it's actions say otherwise.
NOT THEIR (EBAY) BEST,
mw
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-07-05 20:50
Well, it certainly looks like they're dragging their feet with this one--and after asking me to fax my signature on their documents ASAP so they could close his auction down as fast as possible.
Ah well. There will always be those among us who specialize in sleezy auctions and "borderline" business practices--not to mention ignorance and sloppiness in presentation.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-07-06 16:56
Agree, there is no doubt you did everybdoy a service by following thru on your complaint(s) & form filings. Best, mw
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Author: Karen J.
Date: 2001-07-06 17:58
Yeah! I just checked and it seems that eBay has finally come through and de-listed this guy!
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Author: David
Date: 2001-07-06 19:08
Finally!! This is why I don't care for some websites out there.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-07-06 19:29
David, we just have to be careful that we don't mis-label the whole batch of "apples" for a few bad ones, right? Nothing ever supplants checking references, talking to people & taking precautions. Best, mw
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Author: David Kinder
Date: 2001-07-07 06:18
I think I located where our "scammer" is quoting! check out this link and compare:
< http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1444800155 >
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-07-09 14:58
He ripped off the words from that website and the photo from mine. No doubt the guy is a total scam artist. Good work Karen!!
You should have seen the pile of paperwork eBay sent me to fill out in order to shut that guy down! But, hopefully we saved someone's hard earned money in the process.
What people don't realize is that there is a copyright law for digital work as well as printed work. It is against the law to steal photographs and ad copy that someone else has "created." It's called Intellectual Property.
Many people use photos they "borrow" from websites advertising instruments, such as Selmer, Buffet, Leblanc, etc. What they don't know is the publisher of those photos owns the rights to them and they are violating copyright laws by using them.
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