 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kdk
Date: 2020-03-20 17:52
This sort of dovetails with the earlier discussion about disinfecting mouthpieces. I've used Sanimist for years mostly after I've been sick (to prevent bacterial reinfection) or when I need to try a student's mouthpiece and reed setup. It's labeled as mouthpiece disinfectant.
First question: on the printed label it lists as the first ingredient "70% Proponal." The label, I should add, is printed in very small (I would guess 6-pt white type) that I've never actually tried to read before. Is there such a thing? Or is it likely that it's a misspelling (for propanol)? It does smell like rubbing alcohol.
Second question: assuming it's just a misspelling, what could be the reason for the warning I've also never seen before that says not to use it on rubber mouthpieces or some composites? I've been using it for years on hard rubber mouthpieces and never noticed any damage. Can Isopropyl damage the rubber most of our mouthpieces are made of? The only other ingredients are water, flavoring and coloring.
I've emailed Roché-Thomas, the manufacturer, with these questions but thought someone here may have already discovered the answers.
Karl
Post Edited (2020-03-20 18:02)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2020-03-20 20:34
I think, Karl, that "it depends" unfortunately. I know Sanimist has been used for ages for mouthpieces with no complaint. My guess (only a guess) is that hard rubber is not the same as flexible rubber chemically. I do know from experience that a flexible rubber (perhaps plastic, not sure) keyboard will first get sticky and then turn to mush if it is cleaned with isopropyl alcohol. I cleaned it to remove some surface stickiness. Big, big mistake.
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Author: Djudy
Date: 2020-03-20 20:51
According to wikipedia, it is an isomer of isopropyl alcohol, a common solvent. This may explain why it is prefered for mp cleaning as it may show less ability to dissolve and cause gumminess or stickiness. Not all 'alcohols' are alike
I actually saw one product advertised in a music store to clean mps but the label said NOT to use on rubber ! Can't remember the brand but I obviously didn't buy it.
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Author: hans
Date: 2020-03-21 03:39
At the link below, it states: "Propylbarbital (Propal, Propanal, Proponal), also known as 5,5-dipropylbarbituric acid, is a barbiturate derivative used as a hypnotic drug".
The Sanimist label must have a misspelling.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylbarbital
Hans
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Author: kdk
Date: 2020-03-21 03:44
hans wrote:
> At the link below, it states: "Propylbarbital (Propal,
> Propanal, Proponal), also known as 5,5-dipropylbarbituric acid,
> is a barbiturate derivative used as a hypnotic drug".
>
> The Sanimist label must have a misspelling.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylbarbital
>
> Hans
I'm sure it is a misspelling. But this bottle is probably at least 10 years old - probably older. Amazing they haven't fixed it in all these years. Maybe they can't read the tiny print, either.
Has anyone used Sterisol? I ran across it on several music supply websites. The manufacturer's website says it's based on ethanol.
Karl
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Author: hans
Date: 2020-03-21 07:15
Karl,
I've used Sterisol for many years without any issues. The last time I bought it, it was available either as a concentrate, for dilution by the end user, or as a ready-to-use strength.
Regards,
Hans
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Author: m1964
Date: 2020-03-26 02:15
I wonder if anyone used Grey Goose or similar.
At least, if there was any residue left one would not get poisoned.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2020-03-26 03:57
Sterisol is apparently ethyl alcohol, not isopropyl. So, I guess now with the liquor stores in my state closed, the Sterisol might serve a double purpose?
Karl
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Author: ClariBbDad
Date: 2020-03-26 04:17
Attachment: index.png (1236k)
This image is current at wwbw wesite.
The Mi-T-Mist data sheet is here:
https://www.rochethomas.com/topic/sds
Interested in reading Roche-Thomas Corp answer to kdk's email message ...
Post Edited (2020-03-26 04:25)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2020-03-26 04:53
I haven't gotten a reply. Maybe their office is closed down because of COVID-19 and they aren't answering email. I guess I'll email J Chapman, whose email address appears on the SDS.
The main ingredient is still Isopropyl (aka IPA, aka Isopropanol aka 2-Propanol - now spelled correctly ). There are no inactive ingredients listed, so the
I don't see anything on the sheet that recommends against using it on rubber. So it's still a mystery why that warning was on the bottle of Sanimist, which seems to be the same product now renamed Mi-T-Mist. So I guess the flavoring (whatever it was, since it's toxic to ingest) and the green color (it's now described as colorless) have been removed and it's now just alcohol and water.
ClarBbDad, thanks for the link.
Karl
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Author: alanporter
Date: 2020-03-26 06:12
As a retired physician with a special interest in bacteriology, I am wondering why we cannot just use soap and water ? It won't harm the mouthpiece whatever it is made from. I have never used anything else in 65 years of playing clarinet (and other woodwinds) and I have never suffered an infection from the mouthpiece. However, I don't have financial involvement in companies that sell "antiseptics".
Alan
tiaroa@shaw.ca
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Author: kdk
Date: 2020-03-26 06:41
Alan, you're the perfect one to ask. I saw on TV the other day (had to have been an "expert" on MSNBC) someone explaining that, while things like bleach and alcohol actually kill pathogens, that soap and water are useful because they mechanically remove the organism but that they don't kill bacteria or viruses.
I always thought the alkalinity of soap was germicidal.
What's true?
Karl
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Author: hans
Date: 2020-03-26 07:42
Attachment: B190250MSDS.pdf (292k)
Karl,
My bottle of pink Sterisol states, active ingredients:
Diisobutylphenoxyethoxyethyl dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride monohydrate.
I'm pretty sure that that's not ethanol (ethyl alcohol) so it's not safe to assume that it would "serve a double purpose"; in fact, the Material Safety Data Sheet (attached) says that it's toxic.
I hope that helps.
Regards,
Hans
Post Edited (2020-03-26 07:44)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2020-03-26 12:14
Interesting. The blurb on their website said the active ingredient is ethanol. I certainly wouldn't drink the chemicals you've quoted, at least not without knowing what all of it translates to in English.
I'm not drinking any of this stuff in any case - as liquor it's much too expensive ounce for ounce.
Thanks.
Karl
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2020-03-26 19:40
In my opinion 70% ethanol or isopropanol are sufficient and cheap, the rest is commercial, except perhaps (for hand disinfection) adding a bit of glycerol (but don't use isopropanol internally!).
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Author: kdk
Date: 2020-03-26 20:06
FWIW, all of my references to drinking any of this have been tongue-in-cheek.
Karl
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Author: alanporter
Date: 2020-03-26 21:21
Karl, thank you for your comment. The action of soap and water, as you say, is mostly to physically remove the pathogen from the mouthpiece. The ingredients of some soaps do have a mildly antiseptic action, mostly against the harmless organisms that live normally in our mouths. As I said in my post, in my 65 years of woodwind playing I have never once used anything other than soap and water on my mouthpieces and I have never developed an infection from them.
Even years ago when I worked in a bacteriology lab, I just washed my hands with soap and water, not chemicals. (tongue in cheek "maybe bugs don't like me")
Alan
tiaroa@shaw.ca
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2020-03-26 22:37
alanporter wrote:
> The action of soap and
> water, as you say, is mostly to physically remove the pathogen
> from the mouthpiece. The ingredients of some soaps do have a
> mildly antiseptic action, mostly against the harmless organisms
> that live normally in our mouths.
Not for this particular virus (Covid-19). Soap chemically strips away the outer lipids. Soap is the preferred method to remove/inactivate the virus vs. alcohol. Mechanical action washed the virus away.
https://www.sciencefriday.com/articles/covid-19-questions-answers/#soap
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