 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ACCA
Date: 2020-02-25 15:47
I have a 10 yr old student (girl) at grade 2ish level who habitually supports the RH trill keys with her index finger and has her rh thumb in an incorrect position. We've discussed this numerous times. Would a strap help correct this issue? I can't tell if the problem is supporting the weight of the instrument or just focus/concentration/determination to keep correct posture.
A not unrelated issue is all fingers tend to fly too far away from keys rather than stay just above them. Again, we discuss this every lesson and she can play with correct posture but habitually deteriorates right away.
Any tips?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-02-25 17:23
I just relived a similar issue of incorrect habit in another thread. In retrospect I think it might be beneficial to dedicate an entire lesson to an example of a "typical" practice session at home. By this I mean instead of just saying she needs to practice proper finger posture slowly, just have her do a section of the material (re-work the last week's material) over and over, correctly and S-L-O-W-L-Y.
It is also helpful to have a full length mirror on hand so that the student can see what doing it correctly looks like.
I don't like the idea of a strap since that in itself could become a habit when this may not be necessary. As long as the thumb is encouraged to be parallel to the floor (or even pointing slightly up slightly), there should be enough of the skeletal system bearing the weight (opposed to just tendons with a sagging thumb).
............Paul Aviles
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2020-02-25 18:42
If the student's right thumb can bend back from it's top joint (sometimes called "hitchhiker's thumb") then I advise a neck strap right away. This avoids undue tension in the musculature of the thumb. (If I keep my thumb straight, the muscles at its base are extremely tense.)
My own thumb, hand, and forearm suffered for many years due to this.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2020-02-25 22:58
There are kits you can buy on assorted sites, includes a thumb rest with a hook to attach a strap to. I don't have the straps, but I have this thumb rest.
This is a very interesting subject. A lot of people have disabilities and weaknesses in their bodies, sometimes a lifetime of weaknesses. Other times these go away as your young body matures. I had a stroke when I was born. My right side was effected. I got stronger through a lot of this through karate and a lot of other sports, hockey and golf. Even today I take karate lessons twice a week. Been doing this since I was about 10 years old. Maybe this child could benefit through some sort of sporting activities. It surely can't hurt.
I sometimes rest the clarinet between my knees or rest the horn on my right knee. I haven't used a strap. Even when I do solo work, playing in front of the orchestra, I sit. Who cares if I don't stand! I also got into the military, played the sax and the clarinet, but I did make it through Basic Training, with honors actually.
So let the person play the best way he/she can and just have fun with music. If you want me to add a thumb rest fitted to the horn, send me the clarinet. No charge. Just pay a few bucks for the shipping.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-02-26 07:29
I like some of the suggestions, particularly the big mirror. One thought may be to have her actually touch fingers to the keyhole rings to get them close, then move them off a bit. I've used that a time or two when I taught 11 year old beginning Band students.
The strap-- I don't know. I started using one myself years ago after seeing a student use one. I don't use it at concerts. Maybe it's just laziness. I started at age 9 or so and didn't need a strap then.
Between the knees-- I do this occasionally when I practice and maybe during an easy piece at rehearsals. Never at concerts. Probably a sloppy habit. I also at times will put my left thumb on the instrument when playing throat A (something I noticed often enough with beginning students). But I am well aware I'm doing it (just for the heck of it).
Finger position is probably mental more than anything else.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
Post Edited (2020-02-26 07:30)
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2020-02-26 11:38
There's no good reason to not use a neck-strap if it's helpful. More and more players of all ages and abilities are doing so and this is why manufacturers like Yamaha are now making loops for their attachment a standard part of the thumb rest. Regularly hanging a substantial object off the end of your thumb for any significant length of time is not really a "best practice" for keeping your hand healthy over years and decades. Instead of questioning the need for a neck strap I think we might better question why serious students and pros don't do it as a matter of self-preservation.
Young students especially should be encouraged to use them. These kids support the clarinet from under the trill keys largely because it is heavy for their little hands. Let's help them out!
Here's more discussion about neck straps and pros that use them such as Ricardo Morales: http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=363811&t=363631
I would agree that a full length mirror is important. I have one in my studio that I use all the time, especially with beginners. So much more information is absorbed when the eyes are helping to gather it. We use tetrachords to work on hand position and as preparation for scales. One of the best times to attend to right hand position is when it's not involved in playing notes, such as during a 1st octave C or D Major tetrachord. Students quickly memorize these short patterns and are able to watch themselves in the mirror. I've also found some success having them hold a tightly balled piece of paper in their right hand while playing. The size can be adjusted by using more or less paper. If I want to send it home with them I wrap in tape so that it stays intact. I rarely find this necessary anymore, but it was helpful earlier in my career.
I've written more about tetrachords here: http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=443176&t=443133
Poor hand position of this sort sometimes creeps up on high schoolers during marching season because of all the "visuals" (choreography) which has them swinging the clarinet around at all angles while playing. It's an understandable coping mechanism but habituation needs to be guarded against by regular attention to fundamentals. It's but one symptom of what I lovingly refer to as 'marching-band-itis".
Anders
Post Edited (2020-02-26 11:47)
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2020-02-28 07:06
Does her thumb rest have a cushion of some sort? Is she developing a callus?
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-02-28 07:33
Yes, Bennet's mention of a thumb rest cushion is important. I used to use the old "thumb eeze" (sp?) brand that had a square sponge attached to rubber that fit over the thumb rest. After years of that and having the sponges fall off I eventually just went with the rubber that remained. Those things last forever, then you can glue them on when they begin to crack.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2020-02-28 23:09
I'm curious now, after I thought about this if the student is double jointed in the thumb. Maybe the person posting can take a pic of this situation.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-02-28 23:47
My fingers also come too far away from the keys but I'm finding that working through the grade 3 tunes is very strong discipline against it. As the tunes get harder, it just naturally becomes necessary to stay closer to the keys.
I use a claritie sling and it really helps a lot. I wouldn't be able to play without it.
https://www.reeds-direct.co.uk/clarinet-support-to-suppliment-the-use-o.html
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Author: ACCA
Date: 2020-02-29 00:06
Thanks everyone for your input. I have a session with the student tomorrow.
I will report back in due course on our progress!
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Author: marcia
Date: 2020-02-29 04:40
>I don't like the idea of a strap since that in itself could become a habit
And this is bad because...…..? ![[huh]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie11.gif)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-02-29 05:09
......because the strap limits mobility and can get in the way of your LH thumb. Also makes the whole thing seem more "bouncy," sorta the way double lip makes things laterally unstable (only an analogy and NOT a disparagement of double lip embouchure.....just of the strap).
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: donald
Date: 2020-02-29 06:10
Over the years I have had many students who use neck strap, some who came to me (with neck strap) from other teachers and some who used the neck strap on my recommendation.
Assuming they are physically able (ie, hands big and strong enough to play the clarinet) the main determinant of correct hand position seems to be how much the student WANTS to do it correctly. I've seen MANY students play with neck straps and awful/incorrect hand position - one does not guarantee the other will improve.
At the end of the day what will improve the hand position is the student making it a priority to fix it (assuming, as I said above, that they are physically able). The neck strap may help if the student is physically impeded by hand size etc.
dn
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Author: ACCA
Date: 2020-02-29 14:02
We just had a very good session. I've decided against the strap as I have a feeling it will become a crutch that supports bad habits rather than good ones.
She was playing C scales up and down across the break this morning for the first time. Always a rewarding moment as a teacher when a student gets that far! So I think it's a matter of motivation and focus, we talked quite a lot about how to structure her practice sessions and for now I am heavily annotating her scores e.g. with reminders about finger positions on certain measures/passages.
Thanks again everyone for the input, this has been fascinating!
Al
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Author: marcia
Date: 2020-02-29 21:26
I started using a neck strap in January of this year. It does not interfere at all with my left thumb, and there is no bouncing at all. I use a non elastic strap. And if I did not use a strap, I don't know how long I could continue. I was beginning to experience a great deal of discomfort in my right thumb and wrist.
The BHOB device looks like it would solve all the "too much weight on the right thumb" problem, but would not facilitate a quick change between A and Bb instruments.
Marcia
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-02-29 23:48
marcia wrote:
"The BHOB device looks like it would solve all the "too much weight on the right thumb" problem, but would not facilitate a quick change between A and Bb instruments."
It's just as quick to unclip and clip it from one instrument to another just as unhooking and hooking up a sling is when changing from one to the other.
Or get one for each - problem solved.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-03-01 07:50
THE STRAP--
--I've never had any problems using it at rehearsals, which are 2+ hours and a lot of playing. Yet never using it practicing my half hours or at concerts. I'm saying it didn't become something I ever depended on, just a luxury.
--It's never bothered my left thumb--maybe a specific type/width/etc. of a strap would do this? I'm not sure how, but OK.
--I will concede it is possible using a strap could mask or cause other problems, particularly in a young student.
--My first use of a strap came after about 40 years of playing.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
Post Edited (2020-03-01 07:52)
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