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 Grace note fingerings
Author: SunnyDaze 
Date:   2020-02-28 20:25

Hi,

I wondered if I could ask which grace note fingerings people like for the attached two transitions (in the images)?

I need to go from A4 to Bb4, which I do using the right hand side Bb key to get a really emphatic Bb. But when I do the transition from D#4 to E4 I can't find a D#4 fingering that gives me a really clear sound and then a sharp transition to make it emphatic like the previous one.

I just wonder if there was a known-good way to do this, as I can't seem to find one.

The notes are from Smartie Artie, which is in the ABRSM Grade 3 clarinet exam.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_hYinne8sI

Thanks!

Jennifer



Post Edited (2020-02-28 20:26)

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 Re: Grace note fingerings
Author: SunnyDaze 
Date:   2020-02-28 20:27
Attachment:  IMG_8358.jpg (40k)
Attachment:  IMG_8359.jpg (38k)

Here are the attachments.

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 Re: Grace note fingerings
Author: Hank Lehrer 2017
Date:   2020-02-28 20:58

Sunny,

You might try thumb and the first fingers of each hand (1+1) for the D# (bridge key must be operating properly) since you have a rest preceding the grace note. Then all you have to do is lift first finger of the RH and you have the E.

The more conventual way might be T 1 2 for the D# plus the sliver key but that requires raising the second finger of the LH and the sliver key at the same time.

I'd recommend learning both as you might find the 1+1 a good one to have in reserve.

HRL

PS A good way to reinforce the learning process is to look for opportunities to use alternate fingerings so you get accustomed to them.

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 Re: Grace note fingerings
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2020-02-28 21:04

You may not like MY answer.



I find the side key Bb too emphatic for just about all transitions (perhaps only use as a trill when nothing else works). My "go-to" for Bb is: A key; register key; 2,3 of LH; and 2,3 of RH. Unlike the side key, this fingering works for just about everything transiting to and from because it does not involve side or paddle keys and it is not clearer than surrounding notes.


Once you get used to a less emphatic Bb, things start to fall into place.




.............Paul Aviles



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 Re: Grace note fingerings
Author: SunnyDaze 
Date:   2020-02-28 22:26

Gosh! Thanks for both of those comments. :-) I'll have a go.

Jen

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 Re: Grace note fingerings
Author: Tom H 
Date:   2020-02-28 23:00

I admit I overuse the side Bb key at times, but I got pretty good at making a smooth transition from that key to a note using the right hand. I too use it for throat tone trills. Also on fast passages where the next note doesn't involve the right hand.

The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--Austin Macauley Publishers
tomheimer.ampbk.com/
austinmacauley.com/author/heimer-tom (PDF samples here)
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet--Sheet Music Plus


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 Re: Grace note fingerings
Author: Bob Bernardo 
Date:   2020-02-28 23:02

Hi Jen, I've always used the side as well. Since the notes go buy fast there's no need to worry about tuning.


Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces


Yamaha Artist 2015




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 Re: Grace note fingerings
Author: SunnyDaze 
Date:   2020-02-28 23:04

I didn't know that it was bad to over use the side Bb key. I've been trying really hard to start using it because this piece is kind of jazzy and I thought it gave it the right kind of emphasis. It's just as well I asked. :-)

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 Re: Grace note fingerings
Author: ACCA 
Date:   2020-02-29 00:28

I use the side Bb key in every possible situation. I didn't think it was possible to over-use it, unless you really want a note that is less "emphatic" (or more stuffy).
I thought- if it makes the sound you want, and the passage allows you to use it, use it. I'd be interested in what any thoughts to the contrary would be.

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 Re: Grace note fingerings
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2020-02-29 00:56

Not "over use," nor "poor intonation," but rather it GLARES more than the notes around it.


Listen to them in comparison. Play a long tone "A," then slur up to the resonance fingering I suggest.


Now try that with the side key.........it's blatty.




................Paul Aviles



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 Re: Grace note fingerings
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2020-02-29 01:30

I think this really depends a good deal on your instrument and how the side Bb sounds and responds. My A and side Bb are for practical purposes identical in color and volume (response) on both my Bb and A clarinets. I'm not sure I understand what an "emphatic" note is (much less a "too emphatic" one), except if it naturally speaks louder than A. I'd rather use one finger on the side key and one the A key than 5 or 6 (counting all the additional resonance fingers) for the other fingering.

Of course, if the next note is above the break, the regular Bb fingering is usually better.

One of the features I like on my Patricola C clarinet is the linkage that opens a tone hole similar to the side Bb when only the A and register keys are pressed (and closes when there are more fingers down for a note above the break), eliminating the primary need for resonance fingerings for the standard Bb.

Karl

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 Re: Grace note fingerings
Author: Tom H 
Date:   2020-02-29 01:43

As kdk says, the regular Bb fingering is usually better if the next note is over the break (or a low note needing the right hand). Using the side Bb in those situations greatly reduces smoothness (assuming you are slurring). This is what I mean by "overuse", and I do it at times.
On my clarinet the side Bb is as nice and full a sound as any other note. It is particularly practical to use it if on a long note.

The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--Austin Macauley Publishers
tomheimer.ampbk.com/
austinmacauley.com/author/heimer-tom (PDF samples here)
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet--Sheet Music Plus


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 Re: Grace note fingerings
Author: SunnyDaze 
Date:   2020-02-29 11:54

Thanks, yes that makes sense. The piece I'm playing needs lots of loud jazzy Bb notes as the structure of the piece, and my normal Bb is a bit quiet and kind of nothing-sounding. The side key Bb definitely sounds like something really scrumptious from a box of chocolates. None of the transitions are hard after Bb. They are all either slur down to A, or a rest and then open G.

Thanks so much for discussing this. It's lovely again to know that there is no single right way, and that I just have to use my ear and my own intelligence. I love this about clarinet playing. No dogma, individual just common sense.

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 Re: Grace note fingerings
Author: clarnibass 
Date:   2020-03-01 18:17

Re the D# to E, unclear what is the problem with the regular fingering for D#?

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 Re: Grace note fingerings
Author: SunnyDaze 
Date:   2020-03-01 19:53

Hi clarnibass,

I'm an adult starter, and not a very sophisticated clarinet player at all. I just couldn't see the wood for the trees, with there being so many options.

I'm doing the thumb + L1 + R1 option now and that is working nicely.

Thanks!

Jen

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 Re: Grace note fingerings
Author: Hank Lehrer 2017
Date:   2020-03-01 20:55

Jen,

Glad that the 1+1 fingering worked for you in this spot.

But be cautious about relying too much on any particular choice as you need to think about that is happening musically before and after the D#/Eb. Other choices like T12+side key or sliver key might be a better choice at times.

As you continue to move up with your level of play, knowing alt. fingerings is a must. This is all about being versatile which will make you a more mature player and you will develop a much deeper understanding of the instrument.

HRL

PS I still practice alternate fingerings when there is a chance to employ them in any music. Muscle and mind memory!

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 Re: Grace note fingerings
Author: SunnyDaze 
Date:   2020-03-01 21:28

Hi Hank,

Thanks, I will keep an eye on that. I really like the flexibility in fingering and getting to grips with it as I get more experienced.

Oddly, the thing that is happening as I get more grade 3-ish is that grade 1 fingerings that I used to know like the palm of my hand, sometimes just go clean out of my head.

It's like my memory needs reading glasses to remember clarion fingerings and distance glasses to remember the chalumeau fingerings and I can't switch back and forth fast enough. :-)

Maybe in Grade 4 I will grow my inner varifocals.

Jen (age 44 and counting...)

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 Re: Grace note fingerings
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2020-03-01 22:34

I think for that it is helpful to think "note names" as you follow the dots rather than fingerings. That leaves room for you to fill in the fingering of choice as you go along.



It really does get easier.





...............Paul Aviles



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 Re: Grace note fingerings
Author: SunnyDaze 
Date:   2020-03-05 11:20

Thanks, yes it is already getting easier now that I have got my fingering choices straightened out for this one situation. I'm just doing ordinary Bb now and I seem to now be using the sliver key for D#. I think my muscle memory must have gone for a long walk and has now come back. Weird, but for me as a research biologist, definitely interesting.

Thanks!

Jen

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