 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: lexxmexx
Date: 2020-02-28 13:57
I am thinking of upgrading from my Noblet 40 to a Yamaha. I am intending to use it for bigbands, symphonic bands and Broadway pit.
What I know so far is that the CSVR is like the equivalent of the R13 being brighter and SEVR to the RC for having rounder tone. There seems to be very little information on the newer SEVR.
What are your thoughts on these two models?
Although there is another thread on these two models but it was too technical. Bore sizes don't mean anything to me.
I'm on diet, so no Buffets for me. Just kidding, they are too expensive for an amateur doubler.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2020-02-28 16:13
I have two students, one with each model, and both students have a wonderful sounds. So without a large sampling size I would suggest that the CSVR has a slightly more flexible sound and more color/overtone and the SEV a little more fundamental and robustness in the sound.
I would suggest going wherever you can try as many as you can (which may only be 2-4 in either model, or less!) and choosing what strikes your fancy.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2020-02-28 18:07
As a Yamaha Artist I have to respond. I don't want to compare these to the Buffet line. because we might think Buffet is actually better and the Yamaha's might be in second place.
I'll take a Yamaha over any Buffet any time! I've said this before, I feel the CSVR A clarinet is the best I've ever played, but I haven't tested any new products from other companies in a few years. Although the cost with Yamaha's is a bit less than Buffet, Selmer, and other brands, no these are not less impressive nor less professional. I like Yamaha better. These horns work. You don't have to try out 10 Yamaha's to find that really great horn. You don't have to pre-service, repair these as you do with Buffet, once you buy one. Buffet has serious defects in assembly. Let's face it these horns require the need to be fixed even though you just paid $5000 and up for a new Buffet. Pads leak, keys need adjustments, even the cases the horns come in can bend the soft keys making the horns unplayable. Yep this happened to me, so I know others have troubles as well. $550 for a double case that bends the stinky soft keys and Buffet told me too bad! Their NEW cases are not under warranty! So I bought a Marcus case which has that special design called the floating horn, The keys are never touched in the case so the keys are never thrown out of alignment. Here's the cool part. You don't have to pay $550 for a defective case which Buffet want replace nor repair.
With Yamaha these horns are ready for a concert. You don't have to pick the best out of 10 horns. No, they all play just fine. Sure we all may want to customize a few things, I put in cork pads on a few of the keys, but this was not needed. This was just my personal feel of the softer leather pads which are used.
These softer pads also warm up the sound so I'm not sure if I am in agreement that the CSVR horns are brighter. Let's not go there. I will say I adjusted my mouthpiece tip opening a tad to get the most out of the beautiful Yamaha sound. If anything fellow players like my sound better. The Washington Post newspaper editor said I had a very sweet sound! He didn't use the word bright at all and the Kennedy Center is one of the hardest halls to hear yourself play.
I'm positive no one will EVER lose an audition to the finest orchestras in the word because they play a Yamaha and not a Buffet. Maybe because Yamaha's are easier to play people will actually win more auditions. There are no dead notes on these horns. You don't fear the altissimo register worrying that high F may turn into 2 notes higher, the A. You can attack the upper registers without fear and play softly.
I often read about producing warm sound concepts requiring intense air speed through the horn. This shouldn't happen. Yes Buffet R13 A clarinets may not play as well with less air. I've experienced this. But with Yamaha horns I feel breathing is much more natural. That intense air pressure when playing softly is not needed, in fact too much air will surely effect your sound quality. I'm NOT the only player who feels we need to put a mess of air through the horn to get a good quality sound. Nope, check out Steve Williamson, Chicago Symphony, while visiting Vandoren on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4teoC3OnEg
I am not saying to buy only Yamaha. Surely not, but for a great world class horn these can't be beat. Are they better than Buffet? I truly believe so. I also like other brands of horns, such as the Selmer Signature's but I'll still take a Yamaha. Hope this helps a bit. If I can help you out more send an email.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-02-28 20:37
I'm just a grade 2 amateur, adult learner, but I live close to a really good woodwind shop.
I tried the £1800 Yamaha Custom CX and a £2400 fancier Yamaha, and also the Buffet R13 and RC when I went to buy my good clarinet a year ago. There was no comparison for me.
The Yamahas were clearly better ergonomically and the sound was also much better. For me, the Custom CX had the best sound, and I found no advantage in buying the more expensive one, though the shop person said that only more experienced people would be able to get the best out of the expensive one.
Having said that, I went to see a professional clarinet player to have the CX looked at before I bought it, and that person said they'd bought the more expensive Yamaha pair and afterwards really really wished they'd bought the CX.
We both found that the barrels of the Yamaha were a little too long so that they played exactly at pitch and didn't have any room for tuning. The professional person I saw said that if I bought it I must have a shorter barrel made in case I needed to tune to accommodate a flat oboe. Admittedly, I have never met a flat oboe.
I think if you have the opportunity it would be well worth looking at the Custom CX. It's this one in the UK: https://www.yamahamusiclondon.com/Yamaha-YCL-CX-Custom-Bb-Clarinet/pidYAM-YCLCX
I'm not sure if it has a different name in other countries.
Good luck there.
Jen
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2020-02-28 22:32
Jen brought up good points. As a Yamaha Artist you can have a Custom barrel made. There is a very talented man in New York City, works for Yamaha, and will surely take care of your musical needs, including fixing any and all issues with your horn. These repairs are often considered under warranty. I'm not sure about other countries, just the USA. I prefer a reverse tapered bore, because the mouthpiece I use, the 1940 Cicero has a very large bore. So don't run out and buy reverse tapered barrels, you may be throwing away money. I look at this as a matched set. Your mouthpiece should match your barrel and your horn allowing for perfect tuning and no dead notes. The Yamaha Custom mouthpieces which come with the pro horns have a large bored mouthpiece. Too bad these are way too open. But after refacing these mouthpieces you pretty much have the very old school Chedevilles and Kaspar's. Their measurements are as close to a Ched and Kaspar than anything on the market. But the tip openings are around 1.22" should be around 1.07". I have very good luck refacing these.
I called Tsuneo Iwakura in New York one day maybe 2 years ago and he was working on Robert Marcellus's clarinet, belonging to someone else of course. This man is extremely talented! Also very young. Reminds me of Hans Moennig, but very nice! Hans had a temper sometimes. Tsuneo is the friendliest man around!
So my point is Yamaha wants to make their players happy. They will fit you with proper length barrels and the correct barrel bore tapers so your special clarinet will sound and feel like it was built, custom made, just for you. Yep this company means business. Yamaha wants you, take a chance and if you are not happy they actually give refunds. If something isn't right with your horn they will issue you a replacement. Buffet surely won't.
I didn't talk about the really nice SEVR line. The bore is a tad bit bigger with a slightly different taper. Not much. It's surely worth testing this horn. Most of the top symphony players such as the great Chicago Symphony are using the CSVR's and this is the less expensive horn compared to the SEVR and the German line.
The German clarinet has a straight bore for the most part. It is not dark sounding, but it has a big sound. It reminds me of pre-R13 clarinets. The Buffet R13 horns were Buffet's first tapered bore horns, before this the bores were straight. The sound of the old Buffet's and the German Yamaha's are close to the same, but the Yamaha German horns play remarkably in tune.
Lastly, before we see a new Yamaha clarinet design show up in the USA, it's probably gone through 10 years of testing and refinement. The horns during this time are tested and tested and refined to perfection. Because of their stict Quality Control the chances of getting a bad horn are extremely low and if you do get one, Yamaha will replace your defective horn. There is a person on the Clarinet Bboard who had an issue and this was solved by Tsuneo. He was given a new horn. As I recall the wood was warped.
We've heard about horns getting blown out and needing replacing after or around 5 to 10 years. My set of CSVR's are 4 or 5 years old, bought in April, 2015 and the sound seems better as it ages. The tuning has not changed. All of the concerts I've played in, except just one ending with Standing Ovations and you've probably seen me on PBS TV through the years. This is how much I trust Yamaha. I make enough money to afford any and all horns I want, but I'm staying with this company. I hope Yamaha will make a very hard dense, lightweight rubber maybe in the future to save the special African wood which is now government controlled and less horns will be made from this wood. We need to save the planet anyway. Expenses of the wood pretty much has doubled in cost the last few years. So keep your Yamaha horn for a very long time, as I said I think the wood seems to get better with age. Keep your horns clean and service them every 6 months to a year. In this case I believe in quality bore oil. Use rubber gloves if you use bore oil yourself. Some bore oils are toxic and also spoiled. Let the oil soak into the bore and on the outside of the horn at least overnight. When the oil doesn't seem to be penetrating anymore and just sitting on the wood, it's time to clean off the access oil. After 24 hours not too much more oil will be penetrated. Wipe off with a soft cloth and throw that away. The oil again goes bad so throw away the cloth. When buying oil try to check the date on the bottle. If it's over one year throw it out or if you just bought it get a refund. I feel strongly that bad oil effects the wood in a bad way, causing the wood to become soft.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2020-02-29 02:38
Kenwrick Chan just reminded me that Tsuneo Iwakura is a clarinet designer for Yamaha. In the US many players are more familiar with Tomoji Hirakata, the senior technical specialist for the Yamaha Artist series in New York City, and take their Yamahas to him for adjustment and maintenance. In 2018, Tomoji wrote a little presentation on the main differences in bore design between the CSVR and the SEVR clarinets. It can be accessed by a Google search as "Yamaha Clarinet Bore Taper Explained: Yamaha Music, Tomoji Hirakata."
Was it Tsuneo or Tomoji who had Marcellus's clarinet?
Post Edited (2020-03-01 05:54)
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Author: lexxmexx
Date: 2020-02-29 18:52
Thanks to everyone, especially Bob and Jen, for the informative posts.
Below is what I had gathered so far which I believe applies to the CSVR and SEVR.
The bore of CS clarinets provides a clear, focused tone with excellent projection. The sound is well-centered and extremely flexible, providing a wide pallette of tonal colors.
The SE bore produces a warm, round tonality with an abundance of resonance and rich overtones. SE series clarinets blend easily with other instruments, yet are equally suitable for solos
The description of the SE bore sounds a little paradoxical to me. I always think that brighter sounds are the result of having more overtones. Warm, round sounds generally refer to darker sounds and are due to being grounded on the fundamentals. So what constitutes the 'rich overtones'?
Also, between bright and dark clarinet tone, which is more pleasing and acceptable to the general audience?
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Author: aguzz
Date: 2020-03-01 01:26
Hello,
I would like to suggest a more practical approach:
Test each model alternating it with a saxophone, for example, if you are a doubler.
Preferably in a good acoustic environment so you can also try to record.
Also playing different combination of music between the instruments foe example:
A ferling slow etudes with sax versus rapsody in blue or Poulenc sonate 3^ movement.
A funk or jazzy piece with sax versus rose slow etudes or Rachmaninov solos with clarinet.
The combination are endless.
In this way you can truly understand the differences between the two instrument models directly.
Yamaha clarinets are fabulous instruments.
Excuse me for my not so good english i'm italian.
Andrea
Post Edited (2020-03-01 01:28)
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-03-01 01:49
Are you able to get to a shop that has one of each of these instruments? If you aren't then perhaps you could phone one that does mail order and ask to borrow them for a week? I did that at one point the shop owner was happy to send me one to try for a week on approval, understanding that I was serious about buying it.
Definitely playing one in person was the thing that helped for me as they are all wildly different, more so than I could have imagined possible. Having a second person along also helps, as the sound is different for a listener than for the player I think.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2020-03-01 03:00
Bob, would you be willing to share the article or other information, such as the date, of the performance you said was reviewed so well by the Washington Post? It must have been within the last 5 years.
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