 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kilo
Date: 2020-01-12 23:15
I started a thread last month inquiring about the quality of Selmer Series 9 basses and whether a refurbished one might fit my needs. I've played clarinet for sixty years but only started playing bass in 2011, sporadically at first but I've really settled into it over the past year. I had begun to notice the limits to my Yamaha 221 and felt a need to upgrade.
I found an "as is" Series 9 low Eb bass (S36XX) for sale at SaxQuest and, having dealt with them before I considered them trustworthy in their description of its condition. The comments on my earlier thread were encouraging so I sent an e-mail to Glen Sargent at Second Wind Music in Lincolnville, Maine. Glen is an excellent technician, plays bass professionally, and holds those old Selmers in high regard. So I made the purchase and had it shipped directly to his shop in mid December.
I told him there was no hurry and knowing how many school instruments he's usually working on I didn't expect to hear from him until February. So I was excited and delighted when he told me I could pick it up this past Friday.
New pads and corks are a standard part of the overhaul process. He cleaned and conditioned the wood and addressed the hairline cracks at the socket of the lower joint. SaxQuest told me about this and Glen said that he finds this on almost every other old Selmer bass that he's worked on. He removed the joint ring, spread the socket a bit, and was able to work glue into the cracks. He also addressed some issues with the tone holes in the lower joint where the grain had worn away a bit and stabilized them. He asked if I wanted the keywork polished as it would be extra; I told him to go ahead, no time like the present. He play-tested it for half an hour before I showed up on Friday and adjusted the pad heights for intonation.
When I got to his shop he went over the work he'd done, we chatted a bit about clarinets, I paid him and headed back for home. Going through the battered old case I found an invoice from Saul Fromkin! He'd done a repair on the horn back in '82. Also included was nice vintage Ray Hyman neck strap! I greased all the corks and slowly assembled the instrument. This is the first "pro" bass I'd ever handled and I found the register linkages really intriguing, a lot more complex than the single lever on the Y221. One of the problems I found on the Yamaha was the momentary delay when moving from chalumeau to clarion, the brief "grunt" before the note emerged, so I was looking for improvement with this problem. I put a #3½ Legere Studio Cut tenor reed on my Fobes SF, put Cavallini on the music stand and started to play. What a difference! The tone was sweet, the response was quick and secure, the intonation close to perfect. It was nice to be able to play in tune without the neck pulled out half and inch.
I've found myself squeaking a bit — voicing is a little different from what I'm used to — and I'm still getting accustomed to the keywork but it's getting better with each practice session. Needless to say, I'm really happy with this purchase. I spent way less than a quarter the price of a new professional bass. I had considered a new Kessler but there's something about having this venerable old horn that I find very appealing and I'm proud to have a Selmer in the house again.
Post Edited (2020-01-12 23:37)
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Author: DougR
Date: 2020-01-13 00:32
Whew! Glad your experience is so positive. Yeah, my s9 bass has a filled crack at that same location, you kind of want to get used to keeping an eye on that set-screw that tightens the ring around the lower tenon so it doesn't loosen up when the wood shrinks in winter.
I had a peg added (mine didn't have one) and also asked my repair guy to move the LH ring-finger touchpiece closer to the LH pinky cluster so the finger spread would feel more natural; if it were still my main bass, I'd probably have the LH pinky levers lengthened a little, supposedly a common enhancement on older Selmer basses for people with smaller hands.
But yeah, people used to newer Selmers and Buffets pick my s9 up and give it a toot, and invariably the immediate response is "Wow!" (Likewise, younger repair guys checking the grenadilla also go "wow" as in, wow, you don't see grenadilla that fine THESE days.)
Enjoy!!
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Author: Erez Katz
Date: 2020-01-13 04:53
Those Selmer basses are indeed wonderful. My foray into Bass clarinet started on one (on loan...) and I do miss it.
The 221-II is a decent bass but it as you well put it has it limits, an excellent backup nonetheless, especially when one rather not take a wooden instrument.
Since you mentioned sluggishness over the register break, I recommend getting it checked, there are 3 springs that are involved in its action and when they are properly adjusted, going over the break should be smooth and snappy.
Congratulations!
Post Edited (2020-01-13 04:55)
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2020-01-13 07:52
Congrats! I love my old Selmer and can easily see myself playing it for the rest of my life.
Enjoy that one.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-01-13 23:48
I'm expecting a Series 9 low C bass in this coming July/August time for a complete rebuild. Definitely looking forward to it as it still has its original pads and the ventings are all over the place.
I assume they have the same diameter pad cups and thickness pads as earlier Q-series or later D-series basses with 4mm thick pads in the large pad cups (with rivets or resos relative to the tonehole diameter) and 3mm thick ones in the smaller ones.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JEG ★2017
Date: 2020-01-15 20:51
I've had my Model 33 since 1971. I was lucky that mine never developed cracks in the lower joint. When it was new my technician showed me how to check and adjust the ring and also put a mark on the wood and the ring so I could tell if they were out of alignment. Nowadays the wood doesn't change much and I keep my humidity at home (Long Island NY) at an acceptable level.
I've mentioned before that my Model 33 is the best I've played in my opinion. It's been through one complete overhaul and has been carefully maintained.
I bought my A clarinet from Saul Fromkin in 1967. He was a funny guy and a great repairman.
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Author: kilo
Date: 2020-01-15 22:13
I was hoping someone here would remember Saul. He installed the floor peg on my bass. I was surprised that this was an option at the time and not standard issue.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2020-01-17 00:14
Ha--you mean like keeping a loaded revolver behind the counter, just in case (he showed it to me once when I was in, and said "Anybody tries to pull any s___ with me, gets THIS") or in general being one cranky, colorful SOB? Or being the master repair guy that everybody went to when he had the shop on 46th St.? I brought stuff in for him to fix but never had much to do with him; bought a really lovely SBA tenor off him that, he said, had supposedly belonged to Gerry Niewood (it came with a "bill of sale" scribbled in pencil on a piece of notebook paper allegedly in Gerry's handwriting, but it could have been Saul's, who knows?). I don't know that there's anyone in NYC doing repairs with either his talent or his, shall we say, panache.
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Author: oldreedguy
Date: 2020-01-17 11:58
Someone here mentioned they have a 33. I played mine in 2005 with the Rome Festival Orchestra...got severely depressed...traumatized during the gig, quit in the middle of it...flew to Budapest and sold it for 2800 euros...4 years ago I had the bread to buy a new 1193/67 and had opportunities to play professionally in Arizona...my therapist talked me out of it...so I gambled $250K away over the next 2 years...now I'm clean from gambling 376 days...no bass, but the LA winds near Los Angeles needs a CB player...if they can get a horn, I'll buy a mouthpiece...at least I got a Bb back...a Buffet S1...I play lots of different instruments and sing and write...but the clarinet...we all had to start somewhere...and my S1 will be with me till I bite the dust,,,I'm almost 59 and disabled..ain't lettin' go of this little S1 thing...bass? Who knows...in music and life, ya just never know...
A couple of years ago I played a Yamaha plastic in a community band. Nice horn but very sharp...had a vito...nothing compares to the real thing...wish I never lost that 33...but as a
gambler...I lost a ton of stuff...but that's yesterday...it's all about the NOW.
Wish you all the best in bass clarinet land.
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Author: fromsfca
Date: 2020-01-17 19:44
I also play a S9 Bass...Low C model.
Wonderful instruments....although the low C does come in handy, I would have preferred an Eb only because the low C is so long....and I'm not.
I've had 3 gigs over the last few months, one being a show with 5 doubles (so a lot to carry) one being bass. The stage door was up three flights of stairs...at the end of the month long run, I had to get the bass adjusted...things had just popped out of alignment, from either the long hike or taking it on and off the stand..not sure which.
Point being, they sure go out of adjustment easily.
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2020-01-17 20:48
I had problems with my Model 33 going out of adjustment constantly when I first got it. I realized eventually that the case (original, I think) was just horrible. The upper joint basically rested on the bridge keys and side keys and the lower joint was also putting a lot of its weight on the long pinky keys. The instrument was also just not immobilized at all. It was to the point where I would get it adjusted and it would be different by the time I got it home.
I got a Wiseman Model A, which helped, but needed a lot of additional padding for me to get the horn to stop moving around in there. The case has a foam insert to accommodate the length of modern Selmer and Buffet lower joints, but neither was quite the right length for my instrument, so maybe it's got different dimensions from the new models. Eventually I got frustrated that I had to stuff 7 foam blocks into my $900 case to keep my instrument safe.
I ended up going with a custom case from Mike Manning. It's a very tough, compact case with backpack straps and wheels that's just a delight to use. Not cheap, but in the four months I've had it, I haven't had the instrument go out of adjustment at all, which is a new record for me and is exactly why I was willing to spring for an expensive case.
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Author: fromsfca
Date: 2020-01-17 21:38
Max s-d, yup.
The stock case for the S9 was severely worn...I replaced with a BAM...expensive, but nowhere near as much as a Wiseman.
I had a Ritenour for awh8ile: played very nice and had excellent intonation but the keys sucked and the case was abysmal...like you, I stuffed it with foam padding.
The BAMs offer good protection, though I can't really "see" inside, while the case is closed, but the inside joint movement is what puts it out of adjustment. I try to be gentle, but when carrying horns on my back and in both hands (especially between car and gig) I can;t help jostling them around.
Last night, after a gig (just oboe and EH) I slipped coming off the stage and knocked the horn case on the floor (fortunately carpeted)...both horns look, feel and play ok, but still...any internal movement is potential trip to the tech.
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Author: kilo
Date: 2020-01-17 22:32
That's really interesting, Max. My case is original and it's truly awful. I fixed the outside with a roll of gaffer's tape but you're absolutely right, the case allows the two joints to roll around and move quite a lot. I've got to address this problem before I start transporting it around, that's for sure. A custom case would be the best route but I pretty much spent my music budget for 2020 with the purchase and overhaul of the instrument. I know — with that case I can expect to be spending money on adjustments.
For now I'll try to incorporate some additional cushioning in the old case and, of course, be very careful. I may try to look for a used case (wish me luck), find an appropriately-sized suitcase and adapt it, or build one from scratch. I'll say one thing for the Yamaha 221 — it comes with a very nice case. (Actually I could say a lot of other nice things about the Yamaha, but we're talking about cases!) Unfortunately the Yamaha doesn't fit the 33 that well; I tried.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-01-17 23:22
If anyone on here was to recommend a brand new, off-the-shelf case for a low C Series 9 bass that won't break the bank, which case is the best for them?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: fromsfca
Date: 2020-01-18 00:35
The best option I've found is the BAM case.
There are not many other options for low C clarinets.
I know the BAM isn't cheap, but far cheaper than the other options I could find.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-06-19 22:38
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I've recommended the owner gets a Bam case for this Selmer Model 33 bass now I've overhauled it. The original box case is sturdy, but as is always the case (har-har) with Selmer cases, they overlook how the instrument is meant to fit in them.
Excuse the dodgy photos that look like Live Aid with all the stripes as I dropped my camera when trying to hold it and keeping the battery compartment lid closed.
The pads I used on this bass are white synthetic pads for the speaker vents, cork pads for the open G vent, thumb plate and LH1 perforated plate, white leather clarinet pads (3mm thick) for sizes up to 18.5mm and white leather sax pads (4mm thick) for all the larger sizes from 22mm upwards. All pads from 18.5mm and larger have a rivet in the centre.
Here are the sizes and quantities I used:
1 x 9.0mm (synthetic)
1 x 10.5mm (synthetic)
4 x 14.0mm
8 x 16.0mm (two being cork for LH1 fingerplate and the open G vent)
5 x 18.5mm (one being cork for the left thumbplate)
1 x 22.0mm
1 x 26.0mm
9 x 27.5mm
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: EbClarinet
Date: 2020-06-27 03:04
1st of all, I'm happy with/for u that u've found some thing of value. I would suggest that you now work on tone quality and possibly upgrading again to a Selmer with a low C extension. What kinds of music r u and will u b playing? If u're going 2 perform grades 4 and level, then the low C is going 2 b required. What kind of ligature and reeds r u using? I want the best 4 u and I'm really excited 4 u.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/mbtldsongministry/
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