 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2019-12-29 14:13
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We all know and... err... "appreciate" Bundy instruments. Since I've kind of developed knack for them and cannot seem to not collect them (for whatever reasons), I thought I'd share some things I've noticed along the way.
1. They are GOOD. Whatever your basis of comparison is for low-level ebonite instruments: They almost always tune pretty well, they have a decent sound which you can easily improve with the right barrels, setup, mpc etc. . The lack of a dual-register mechanism is a letdown on the alto, BUT it outmatches the Vito in any category, imho.
2. They're set up cheaply, but not made cheapy. Many would describe them being build like a tank - I'd agree, although the keys, being cast, are somewhat easy to bend. Then again, that is pretty much ideal for school band instruments, where kids mess them up anyways - yet they don't seem to break! On one instrument, I've done some hefty "key bending acrobatics", but it all went well.
3. They deserve better quality pads. In particular, speaker keys and the ones with holes in them for alto/bass are made of some sort of disgusting foam that absorbs humidity and doesn't seal well at all. Why not use cork instead... (see pics attached)
4. Something is off with the cases used. They emit a terrible smell, and some people here have already suggested that nickel plating can tarnish because of the fumes from these. All the Bundys I was able to take a look at (and which where in their original cases) shared this problem
5. Tarnished nickel on these instruments does not behave like anything else I've seen. They develop a thick, greyish layer that is inviolable by normal buffing methods. I've tried everything, but it wouldn't go away!!
Ultimately, I've decided to grind the tarnish away, using 2000, then 3000 grit sanding paper. 5000 grit would make for a nicer finish, I guess, but I got some rubber buffing tools that should also be suitable for this kind of job. See the pictures attached. This was only a test, so far, I'm aware that this might not be the most gentle way to deal with tarnished keys.
All in all, they're fun to work with, because of their potential and low cost. The Eb I've recently aquired might be a hidden gem, given that its intonation is pretty fantastic and anything up to altissimo g can be played, which is pretty insane compared to anything I've had so far. Really looking forward to when I'm done with this one.
How do you guys feel about these horns? Would you rather have someone play on an old, restored Bundy or should they just buy a new plastic Buffet/Yamaha? And why the heck does nobody produce affordable altos and eefers nowadays? The chinese ones don't count.
Best regards
Christian
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-12-29 14:30
Are they still being made? by whom?
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2019-12-29 15:30
I've always had a lot of time for the Bundy. Considering that they were built as a low-cost instrument aimed at the school band market they are capable of performing well above that level. I've had several of the old wood Bundys and a few of the plastic instruments. They all performed well when set up properly, and for some years I kept one in the back of the car as a backup. My favourite was a wood horn that I set up with cork pads on the upper joint and a barrel of my own manufacture. It had a plateau key on the thumbhole. They're about as close to bulletproof as you can get, except perhaps for a Vito.
Tony F.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2019-12-29 18:13
The only downside I've ever found to Bundy is that the tone holes seem to be harder than other entry-level instruments for a small student's fingers to cover. Older students and adults don't seem to have this problem.
Karl
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2019-12-29 18:32
ruben:
No, the "Bundy" brand name hasn't existed for decades now
Tony:
Do you have a picture of that wooden one? Sounds interesting.
Karl:
Well yes, almost every Bundy looks like it was made for bigger hands. Especially the Eb feels surprisingly spacious, but I like that. Well, my hands are only medium sized with long(ish) fingers, but I'd imagine people with really small hands could struggle with these instruments.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2019-12-29 20:25
Kalashnikirby wrote:
> Karl:
> Well yes, almost every Bundy looks like it was made for bigger
> hands.
I was always amazed that they would do that on an entry-level instrument.
Karl
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2019-12-29 20:32
Hi,
I ws a band director for many decades and during that time, started hundreds of beginners, the Bundy was always the first choice for clarinet as well as sax and flute. The first clarinet upgrade was usually a Luyben ligature (then about $4) in middle school and later a better mouthpiece which was often a Selmer HS**, a VD, or a Portnoy BP02 along with better reeds.
I had many students get Superior ratings at contest on this rig even in Class A. I started two granddaughters on Bundy clarinets and then switched them to Ridenour 147s. It is hard to fault either instrument.
HRL
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2019-12-29 21:37
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"Ultimately, I've decided to grind the tarnish away, using 2000, then 3000 grit sanding paper. 5000 grit would make for a nicer finish":
I used a rotating brass (not steel!) brush on a Dremel or Proxxon for heavily tarnished German silver keys, see pictures. It worked well and fast, leaving no visible scratches. But beware of bristles flying off; wear glasses!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2019-12-29 22:38
In my younger days when I was just starting out teaching privately, I would go to students' homes. For some reason in those years I had a ton of alto sax students. I would just bring along my Bundy Eb clarinet since it was much more convenient than bringing an alto sax to their lessons to use for duets, etc.... In more than 20 years of transporting it I never had a single mechanical problem. The case took a beating, but that was about it.
These days, upgraded with a quality barrel and Fobes extension, it compares very favorably to any pro instrument for sound, intonation and ease of playing. Although over the years I have since acquired, an R13 Eb (97xxx) from 1967 and a Selmer Series 9 (U59xx) from 1966, I still use the Bundy Eb, even in orchestra - most recently for Bernstein's Three Dance Episodes from 'On The Town'.
As others have mentioned, the key / finger layout seems to favor those with larger hands or wider fingers. A definite plus for not unintentionally opening one of the sliver keys by accident.
...GBK
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2019-12-29 23:05
GBK wrote:
"As others have mentioned, the key / finger layout seems to favor those with larger hands or wider fingers. A definite plus for not unintentionally opening one of the sliver keys by accident."
Yeah, I recently overhauled a Hammerschmidt German system Eb, which had such an unfortunate spacing between the lower ring keys and the "sliver key", arguably even worse when that produces F/Bb, not F#/B!! Someone with wider fingers than me, and mine aren't that wide to begin with, simply couldn't play this horn.
The Bundy somehow has the opposite of that problem.
MichaelW:
Very smart idea!
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Author: DougR
Date: 2019-12-29 23:52
I too have a Bundy Eb (as I've mentioned elsewhere on the board) that I acquired last year, sans barrel, for $175. I got a barrel and an extension from Clark Fobes (he had to re-ream the extension because it didn't fit the Bundy tenon, which he did very kindly at no cost). Started out using a 5rv Lyre, and the horn was a little pitchy, but just recently bought an excellent B44 and everything about the instrument is better--intonation, playability in the upper register, etc. I'm very happy with the instrument, and it's actually fun to play (something I never thought I'd say about the Eb clarinet).
The case is a decrepit Leblanc, which I treated with some of the Doctor's case deodorizer and screwed a couple of corner brackets on because the dovetail joints had cracked. (the case also has "CSKLYWA" and "KIM" scrawled on it in silver marking pen, plus numerous Strawberry Shortcake 'friendship' stickers, a legacy of the instrument's previous existence as a school horn.)
I'd guess that one reason the cases stunk up over the years (as mentioned above) was that none of the young virtuosos ever bothered swabbing the instruments out since they were plastic; mine came with a layer of velvety crud in the bore that required soaking to loosen and remove.
I know of a fairly well known (in Broadway circles) clarinetist who regularly uses his high school Bundy Eb in the pit and for legit dates. So no, I would never disdain a Bundy, not ever.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2019-12-30 01:50
Bundy certainly made a solid instrument. I recently used an old Bundy bass for a pit orchestra gig and it played well.
For years Selmer used the Bundy name for student instruments and Signet for the intermediate level, but retired those names a number of years ago, now using the Selmer name on all of them.
Be careful about new instruments out there with the Bundy name. It is another of the legendary names that someone else is using.
https://bundymusic.com
Post Edited (2019-12-30 01:50)
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2019-12-30 02:38
"Tony:
Do you have a picture of that wooden one? Sounds interesting."
Unfortunately not, I sold it a few years back. I took photos at the time but lost my complete archive in a computer meltdown a couple of years ago. I believe the plateau key on the thumbhole was offered as an option. It would have helped the player with small hands.
"Ultimately, I've decided to grind the tarnish away, using 2000, then 3000 grit sanding paper. 5000 grit would make for a nicer finish"
I've had complete success removing tarnish from nickel-plated keywork using a Dremel, with a felt pad and a fine polishing paste. It easily removes the corrosion and oxidization and produces a fine polished finish.
Tony F.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2019-12-30 09:26
>> The lack of a dual-register mechanism is a letdown on the alto <<
Some of the best pro altos have a single register vent system too.
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2019-12-30 11:25
I just happened to pull out my Bundy bass today to check it out for problems before lending it to a friend. I don't think I've played that instrument more than 10 cumulative minutes since I got my Selmer bass a couple of years ago.
I had forgotten how solid it is! Strong tone throughout the range of the instrument, from the low Eb all the way into the altissimo. The upper clarion speaks very clearly and cleanly as long as you know how to voice properly. Sure, it lacks the refinement of the Selmer, especially the lower clarion, but projection and punch are there. I think the throat A and Bb might actually be better than my Selmer...
My parents bought that instrument used for me for $450, I think. I played that horn for about 12 years in wind ensembles, orchestras, rock bands, jazz combos, chamber groups and anything else I got up to. I still know it like the back of my hand. I don't think any other piece of musical equipment has provided that kind of long-term bang for the buck!
I was able to save up and get my dream instrument (Selmer low C) and won't be moving back to the Bundy as my primary bass clarinet, but it is definitely good enough to keep around as a very solid backup. I do kind of miss showing up at gigs with the Bundy and surprising other players with the sound I could get out of that thing!
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-12-30 13:58
Kalash: I wonder why they stopped making Bundys. Competition from Yamaha maybe? This was before the Chinese entered the market. I remember that around middle school age, the more serious players "graduated" to Noblet wooden clarinets.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: ACCA
Date: 2019-12-30 15:26
I started learning on an old one, played on another old one later when I couldn't afford anything better- bad experiences. consistently flat, out of tune with itself, and pads were terrible. struggled with tone at pp and ff. In my teaching experience students fare far better with Yamahas, even 2-30 years old, compared to bundys or even B12's.
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2019-12-30 21:17
I picked up a Selmer 1401 (yes they are sold under Selmer USA mark not Bundy any more) from a pawn shop for 40 bux for outdoor use after a 109 degree gig with the summer band. It didn't need to go into the shop, plays well with my 5RV. I even played the solo to Light Cavalry Overture and some trad jazz on it at the park. Solid solid clarinet.
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2020-01-01 22:12
Yeah, my impression is that some of them are still being made, just using the Selmer USA brand name. The 1430LP bass clarinet looks to be just about the same plastic, one-piece bass clarinet they have made for 40 years.
The new prices on these seem pretty uncompetitive ($2100 for the aforementioned Selmer bass) in terms of bang for the buck with a lot of Chinese brands these days ($2100 for a Kessler Low C that is leagues better), but if I'm recommending an inexpensive used instrument to a friend, a Bundy is still near the top of that list in terms of things to search for that a good repair person could probably put into good playing shape.
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