 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2001-06-28 17:30
There was a comment about clarinet blowing out at seven years of age. i disagree. My Selmer 10 is about 40 years old and still going strong. I play it 3 or 4 days a week.
How old is your horn.??????????
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-06-28 19:27
Eb soprano clarinet: Approximately 50-60 years old (hard rubber M. Lacroix)
Bb clarinet: About the same as above (wood Guy Humphrey).
A clarinet: Estimated 70-75 years old (wood Kohlert, Boehm with wraparound register key)
Alto clarinet: Approximately 35-40 years old (wood Kohlert)
Bass clarinet: About the same as the alto (hard rubber Kohlert)
EEb contra: About 25-35 years old (plastic Buescher)
No signs of "blowout" noted in any of the above instruments. I believe "blowout" is an erroneous diagnosis of instruments suffering from basic "overhaul-deficit disorder" (i.e, needing new pads, corks, oiling, and general regulation). Am eagerly awaiting scientific (non-anecdotal) evidence to the contrary.
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Author: Corey
Date: 2001-06-28 20:02
My old Normandy clarinet is about 40 years and still has a beautiful clarinet sound it has been passed down in my family
corey
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Author: Meri
Date: 2001-06-28 20:19
My R-13 is 33 years old--about ten years older than I am. (yes, I checked the serial number). Haven't played an instrument that I like better than this one.
Meri
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Author: connie
Date: 2001-06-28 21:01
My Leblanc is pretty old, but I'm not sure how old...the Leblanc records are incomplete because of the fire. I'm guessing it's from the 50's based on its serial number compared with Dee's ...if anyone else has other info, the serial # is in the 8000's. It's showing some wobbling of the keys on the rods...this has been fixed a couple of times with cellophane.
I broke down and bought a new R-13 2 years ago, which is now my main horn.
Regarding "blowout"...my teacher says he wears out a clarinet about every 10 years, that the metal posts literally wear away the wood so they don't stay stable. He plays at least 2 hrs a day...hey, that's his job.
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Author: J. Exner
Date: 2001-06-28 21:42
I got my Selmer in 1972 (I think). Just had it once-overed, and it's just fine.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2001-06-28 21:55
My Greenline is 6 years old.
Sorry, not only it's a baby, but it's not even in wood, will that ever get blown out? :->
-S
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Author: Micaela
Date: 2001-06-28 21:56
My B flat is from 1955. My new (to me) A is from the late 60s. They're both R-13s.
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Author: Don Austin
Date: 2001-06-28 22:10
My father bought me a new Selmer RI (seven rings) in 1934 when I was 13 years old. Top of the line for $165 and he had to pay on time. I finally bought a Signature two years ago but like my original just as much.
DLA
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Author: beejay
Date: 2001-06-28 22:15
My Buffet Crampon is less than three years old, but it seems to get better with age. Or is that me?
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Author: Leanne
Date: 2001-06-28 23:50
My wooden Yamaha Allegro is 1 1/2.
My plastic Yamaha is 15.
I have no idea how old my Bundy bass clarinet is...my guess is 35-40. Any ideas?
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2001-06-28 23:51
I do not believe in the "blow out" theory. I think that most of the problem comes from build up of calcium and deposits in the area of the tone holes that swabs miss. I good overhaul takes care of that along with the key "wobble" problem.
I just got through overhauling a LeBlanc Symphonie I purchase off eBay last winter. I don't know how old it is but guessing at least 50-60. It is the original Symphonie...no numbers following. Fantastic instrument!
Connie: What metal post(s) wears on the wood? Can you elaborate?
John
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2001-06-29 00:12
I guess the age of the horn is like the player. If you take care of it and have it adjusted, handle it with loving care it will last a long, long time. We are getting better with age.
Peace
Age is only a number.
if you hit the right one you will hear BINGO
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-06-29 00:27
Cponnie is correct I think. I have seen clarinets, specifically & very recently a Buffet R-13, that were played a lifetime in 12-15 years. I think the the wood WAS "fatigued" or badly worn in the areas around the posts (call it what you will). An overhaul by Ridenour literally went away in 15 months or so. Pffffff ... like somebody let the air out. Probably still a nice horn for a HS player, but not for a pro any longer. I have read Brand's & other repair books on how to work with the posts ... but Ridenour knows all that and lots more. (JB that horn is now just north of Houston).
Besr,
mw
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2001-06-29 00:55
Wood contracts with age. This is why post get loose on clarinets over a period of time. Yes, there are many different ideas as to how to deal with the problem. Some solutions are simple and others more labor intensive. Most "vintage" clarinets have to this remidied, of course. Yes, I also agree that these older instruments require more maintenance. It is much the same as owning an vintage automobile. Then again, you wouldn't want to drive a '57 Chevy Bel Aire the same as you would a '02 Monte Carlo. But man, what a pleasure of a ride!
John
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-06-29 02:12
jbutler wrote:
>
> I just got through overhauling a LeBlanc Symphonie I purchase
> off eBay last winter. I don't know how old it is but guessing
> at least 50-60. It is the original Symphonie...no numbers
> following. Fantastic instrument!
>
I have a Leblanc Symphonie II. According to the Leblanc staff, mine would have been made in the early to mid 1950s. So the original Symphonie is probably from the late 1940s to early 1950s.
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Author: Graham Golden
Date: 2001-06-29 03:02
i think that if you keep your clarinet oiled it can last a life time, my clarinets range from about 50 years old to my newest one, 60 day old today, actually rolled out of the factory 60 days ago.
Graham
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Author: Jim
Date: 2001-06-29 05:00
Selmer Signet Special 32 years, in storage 17 years though. Overhauled 5 years ago.
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Author: willie
Date: 2001-06-29 06:00
I have several that are over 50 and play great. My old original Freeman that I got new in '61 is my main horn and has more time on it than I can calculate. When some of the posts got wobbly, I just put a drop of olive oil at the base and let it soak in a couple days. Problem solved. One of the trill keys is getting a little loose, but I think I can drill it out and sleeve it with some tubing from the model airplane shop. They have brass, aluminum, and steel in many small sizes. Its too good of a horn to give up on.
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Author: Hans de Nijs
Date: 2001-06-29 07:57
I'm playing 25 - 55 year old clarinets (E-flat, A/B-flat, Bassethorn and Bass) from Fritz Wurlitzer, hand-made and hand-forged key-work.
The instruments are in superb condition, the wood (grenadill) of these clarinets is of a very high quality and my experience is that no problems exist to play these instruments professionally in at least chamber music. Most orchestras in Europe demand or prefer playing the same brand of instruments for matching sound character and tuning. (in Germany and the Netherlands: Herbert Wurlitzer).
A point of attention is the maintance of the mouthpieces (regularly refacing is needed, aspecially of the wooden ones).
Indeed most professionals are changing their instruments regularly, mostly due to orchestra rules.
A known example of a professional soloist who is playing during his career the same instruments is Dieter Klöcker, the known german player. He is still playing Oskar Oehler and Warchewski clarinets (at least 65 years old with wooden mouthpieces)
Hans
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2001-06-29 13:56
I have a wooden Leblanc bass clarinet that is about 45 years old and plays well. The only reason I got a newer instrument a couple of years ago was that I wanted a low-C instrument.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-06-29 15:44
Mechanical questions such as worn pivots, loose posts are not what "blowout" refers to. Supposedly "blowout" is deterioration of bore, tone holes and such due merely to the air passing through the horn as you play to the extent that tone and tuning and resistance are noticeably affected and is unrelated to normal mechanical wear of moving parts, etc.
With mechanical issues it is simply a question of cost of repair and whether it is worthwhile to the individual to have it corrected. Each person is going to feel differently about it and have different reasons for their choices.
As far as your instructor wearing out the wood around the posts, I really have to wonder what he is doing. Perhaps there is some other contributing factors (drying of the wood or who knows what) as otherwise full time orchestral players, who may practice/perform 8 hours a day, would need a new instrument every 2 to 3 years. I've never seen any reports to the effect that this is a common occurence.
Little if any objective evidence exists to support the concept of "blowout." As can be found by searching this board, there have been instruments thought to be blown out that were restored to like new playing characteristics by the removing plaque/calcite builup in the horns.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-06-29 16:46
JB the Buffet R-13 in question is a 1987-1989 model. Purchased in 1989 from IMS.
As I said, played to death ... like I said ... Tom Ridenour has done last 2 overhauls on it.
Best,
mw
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-06-29 16:58
For the record: Nothing I have said supports the idea of blowout. I spoke to what I believe is WEAROUT! Keys need SERIOUS plating, too. Consistent playing of 12 hours a day by a Principal in 2nd-tier Orchestra & Music Professor. If somebody wants to buy it, it'll be fine by me. This horn has a beautiful sound, too. I wouldn't buy it (somebody will) & I certainly don't consider it to be Vintage in anyway. The Buffet R-13's of the 1980's are not particularly revered, although I am sure there is a great one, here or there. My point is that there are some clarinets to be avoided, even if they have never had a crack. A new car dealer sells new cars -- used car dealers sells used cars --- music repair tech repairs musical instruments. Caveat emptor is what the buyer gets.
Best,
mw
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Author: ken
Date: 2001-06-30 01:43
The "blown out" horn theory is a highly debatable and objective issue that'll never be resolved as long as musicians think of their instruments as living, breathing entities rather than the man-made machines and simple tools built as a musical means to an end. Dead as dead as a doorstop until human breath is blown into them. Everyone that loves their horns, labored countless hours over them is unnaturally but artistically attached to them. Frankly, after 25 years in the biz I never heard of it until 1992 when I met Larry Combs and the subject got brought up. He affirms horns become lackluster, physically worn, and dull over time and claims he routinely swaps out new horns every five years. I suppose that's all fine and well for a player of his caliber status and promotional contract with Leblanc where he gets his horns for free at the snap of a finger. As for me, I've literally played the "snot" out of my entry-level 1975 R-13 and it's served me well and faithfully. 20+ countries a year and 180+ days annually in every kind of elevation and environment the planet has to offer. I've taken great care of it over the years, religious bi-annual adjusting, pads, posts, pins, springs, buffs but after enough gigs that Basie would envy, 25+ hours a week on the horn since Nixon was President, it simply doesn't hold that tight pitch center, command and sound that it used to. Time to retire, suck it up and buy another one...hehe.
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Author: MarkP
Date: 2001-06-30 02:45
1961 Selmer Series 9*, even with the top joint banded it's been an excellent clarinet since it was purchased used in 1971
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Author: Sara
Date: 2001-06-30 17:38
A Buffet Festival, almost two years old in a week, and I recently aquired a Buffet Evette through Ebay that was made in 1965. The sound of both is almost identical, the latter having a slightly fuller sound, and absolutely no signs of having been worndown. Its currently in the shop for a overhaul.
Sara
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-06-30 21:59
What a wonderful bunch of GREAT clarinets above. I can contribute my first good cl, a 1920's [or earlier?] Penzel Mueller Full Boehm, as my teacher said, he played it in movie theaters BEFORE they had sound!!! Still plays well, also does an old[er?] Selmer F B rosewood play even better. To: Don Austin, a pawn shop friend sold me a 1933 Selmer RI F B [like yours?] ser # L 1306, [for a song and 1/2!], dern good horn, has a strange, metal barrel extension into the UJ, cracked/pegged, I applied elect. tape on outside {J Butler, please note!] good tight horn!! Obliviously dont believe in blow-out! Don
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Author: Bob Curtis
Date: 2001-07-02 02:08
My main instrument is a Selmer Center-Tone purchased in 1953, back up instrument is a Buffet made in 1948. They both continue to sound great to which I contribute careful cleaning and swabbing out EACH time I play them. Take proper care of your instruments, have proper and regular maintenance done, and they will literally last a lifetime or more. Treat them sloppily and you WILL have problems!!
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Author: graham
Date: 2001-07-02 08:11
My pair of Martels dates from between 1905 and 1915. It is evident that in earlier times they were played very intensively, particularly the B flat. They are very worn, but the play very well, and i do almost all my playing on them. There is no suggestion of "blow out" with these instruments. I also have a 1955 Booseys 1010 which plays nicely. I have not been able to date my Chabot bass clarinet, but would guess it is a 1930s or 1940s instrument. Plays beautifully.
Hans, thanks for the interesting information on Klocker.
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Author: Bart Hendrix
Date: 2001-07-02 14:45
My thirty-or-so year old Selmer 10 sounds great. My wife, with a self-professed tin ear, can easily pick out its sound from the others and prefers that I not play the others when I can use the 10.
My eighty-or-so year old Kohlert was starting to sound stuffy when, on a whim, I cleaned the bore of the barrel with a damp mouthpiece brush (what else would you do with that brush?). Its sound was improved tremendously.
No scientific evidence here, but I tend to side with the position that blowout involves a build-up of crud which, among other things, clogs the grain of the wood.
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