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 school horns
Author: Bob Bernardo 
Date:   2019-11-09 21:09

I just gave 2 master classes and at the schools the main horns were Yamaha's. This I'm happy about.

What bothered me during the classes were the dreadful sounds I heard. Well a short story. The people are playing on mouthpieces that came with the horns and the tip openings are around 1.20 to 1.24 mm's. This is so frustrating. Way too open fr kids! Kids are playing on 1 1/2 reeds. They won't ever sound decent.

How do we solve this problem?


Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces


Yamaha Artist 2015




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 Re: school horns
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2019-11-09 22:42

The Yamahas that came into my school district when I was teaching (and serving as part-time music administrator) had 4Cs in the cases. Not ideal, but certainly not 1.20 mm tips. Maybe it's a West Coast thing?

When the schools' purchasing departments bid these instruments out, they can specify any mouthpiece they want. The vendors' proposals will be priced accordingly. So, the price might be higher if you specified Vandoren M13Lyre to be substituted for whatever stock Yamaha mouthpiece comes from the factory, but if you wanted to substitute 4Cs for whatever else Yamaha is supplying, it shouldn't be hard for a vendor to accommodate that.

My question, given that we were getting 4C as standard original equipment, is whether someone at the school you visited is actually requesting the more open mouthpieces.

Karl

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 Re: school horns
Author: Bob Bernardo 
Date:   2019-11-10 09:58

Hi Karl, no the schools are not requesting more open mouthpieces. I think the issue is Yamaha doesn't seem to care I guess. Surely they must know there is a problem! Maybe it's too expensive for them to make a normal tip opening for the younger players.

Thanks for the information. I'll write to Yamaha but I don't think they will respond.


Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces


Yamaha Artist 2015




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 Re: school horns
Author: bmcgar 2017
Date:   2019-11-11 02:44

I had a local H.S., by no means affluent, buy very good "student" mouthpieces with medium lays for all their clarinet and sax players. (Yes, a preponderance of 4Cs were being used.)

Made a big difference at only $25 a pop.

B.

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 Re: school horns
Author: nellsonic 
Date:   2019-11-11 09:20

Bob,

As a "Yamaha Artist" would't you expect to get an answer from them?

http://www.yamaha.com/artists/relations.html?CTID=5070090

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 Re: school horns
Author: Juanzen 
Date:   2019-11-11 09:43

It is a big issue no maker includes a decent mouthpiece with a clarinet that I know of. I have not seen a single stock mouthpiece that comes with an instrument that is worth even putting in the case. I have no experience with german clarinet so maybe there the reality is different


It is shameful to admit, but when these brands make saxophones. The mouthpieces are much better, yamaha saxophones include a 4c, selmers include something that is workable as well in my opinion.

When I was learning, the "standard" mouthpiece would be something close to a vandoren 5RV in dimensions, it is on the closed end of the spectrum, but I never heard that an open setup might be bad for someone learning the instrument.

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 Re: school horns
Author: Bob Bernardo 
Date:   2019-11-11 14:05

Nellsonic, I've ever seen this! I usually just write to the California division and don't usually hear from them. I don't get anywhere. Needless to say I'll write.

Thanks!


Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces


Yamaha Artist 2015




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 Re: school horns
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2019-11-11 21:39

Juanzen wrote:

> It is a big issue no maker includes a decent mouthpiece with a
> clarinet that I know of. I have not seen a single stock
> mouthpiece that comes with an instrument that is worth even
> putting in the case.

At the "pro" level, Selmer used to include Gigliotti mouthpieces in the 10G cases. AG wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but it was a high quality mouthpiece that Gigliotti himself used once it was fully developed and in production.

If you mean student clarinets, I haven't seen a good mouthpiece come with one of those, either. But I don't know what mouthpieces Backun and Ridenour include with their entry-level instruments.

Karl

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 Re: school horns
Author: seabreeze 
Date:   2019-11-11 23:45

Karl,

Selmer also once made a mouthpiece with the logo 10G stamped on the front, just below the bottom ligature line. I've only seen two of these, and I own one. Perhaps it was the result of a very short run production.
It has thin rails, and a very high and narrow tone H-shaped chamber (as viewed from the bottom), rather different from any of the Gigliotti models (including the early Link one) that I've seen. No one can tell me anything about this 10G mouthpiece or whether it might have at one time been included with 10G clarinets. The blank is marked "Made in France" at the bottom. It plays with a more covered and dark sound than the Gigliotti and with good projection and control.

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 Re: school horns
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2019-11-12 03:18

I wonder if that's something they started using after the relationship with Gigliotti ended. I don't really know how much longer they continued to produce and market them. Maybe Gigliotti wouldn't allow them to continue using the AG P or P34. They might have re-labeled one of their Selmer mouthpiece models. The high chamber and narrow and high straight-frame throat opening (if that's what you're describing) seem similar to the AG mouthpieces that I own. Interesting.

What kind of facing does your 10G mouthpiece have?

Karl

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 Re: school horns
Author: seabreeze 
Date:   2019-11-12 03:51

The facing is open about 1.03 mm at the tip and is medium long. I compared the 10G piece to a Gigliotti mouthpiece (his closer, personal P facing), and the Gigliotti tone chamber has slightly more of an A shape though still high and narrow. The 10G chamber is severely H shaped, with no taper towards the bottom. The Gigliotti also voices differently--super tight and focused; the 10G has a broader, more luxuriant, almost creamy and more relaxed sound but still not spread or dull.

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 Re: school horns
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2019-11-12 05:34

Does it resemble any of Selmer's other mouthpieces of the time?

Karl

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 Re: school horns
Author: seabreeze 
Date:   2019-11-12 07:08

It resembles other French Selmer mouthpieces of the time visually in having the familiar round Selmer logo midway on the front and could possibly have been made from the same standard Selmer rod rubber blank (like the HS* pieces) but the internal dimensions and overall sound are different. It is also different from the later C85-115 model Selmer mouthpiece that was sometimes supplied with Selmer 10G clarinets.



Post Edited (2019-11-12 17:43)

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 Re: school horns
Author: gwie 
Date:   2019-11-12 09:42

I have a half dozen or so Yamaha 4CM mouthpieces that I've picked up over the years, and have given away a couple to students playing on the "doorstops" that come with their student instruments. In testing them, I find they aren't far off from a Vandoren 5RV, and play well with a range of 3.0-3.5 reeds of many different brands.

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