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 glue for cork
Author: Roxann 
Date:   2019-11-07 02:37

One end of my mpc cork has come unglued. To avoid my having to spend over 2 hours getting to a repair shop, waiting for the problem to be resolved, them driving home...would someone mind telling me what type of glue I can use to repair it myself? THANK YOU!

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 Re: glue for cork
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2019-11-07 03:11

I think most repair people these days use contact cement (read the instructions if you don't know how to use it). The tricky part is not breaking the cork as you completely remove it and brush the cement over the inside surface. If you want to start from scratch, you can buy sheet cork from the repair supply places. The only real hitch in doing this yourself is that you need to choose the right thickness or use a slightly too-thick cork and sand it down to the right fit.

Karl

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 Re: glue for cork
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2019-11-07 03:51

I've played for forty-five years and still would never try doing my own tenon cork. Drive to your tech and wait for the repair. You don't want a hard spot, sticky cork, or a wobbly tenon.




.............Paul Aviles



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 Re: glue for cork
Author: Bob Bernardo 
Date:   2019-11-07 09:48

https://bretpimentel.com/do-it-yourself-replace-a-tenon-cork/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOXEG56QUgY

It's really easy and everyone should learn this. One day you might get in a pickle and not be able to do this simple repair. If you live in the USA I can send a strip of cork and then just buy some Contact Cement at any hardware store. Wear rubber gloves, the throw away style as this glue can get all over your hands and a pain to get off.

Email me and I'll send a strip or 2 of cork. Just follow the above tips.


Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces


Yamaha Artist 2015




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 Re: glue for cork
Author: Tony F 
Date:   2019-11-07 11:51

Replacing joint corks is a very easy process, well covered in YouTube clips. Everybody should learn to do this. In answer to to original question, use contact adhesive. Use an old reed as a glue spreader.

Tony F.

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 Re: glue for cork
Author: Steven Ocone 2017
Date:   2019-11-07 17:39

You can wrap plumbers teflon tape or dental floss over the cork. The cork and wood maybe saturated with cork grease and the glue may not adhere.

Steven Ocone
Ann & Steve's Music

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 Re: glue for cork
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2019-11-07 17:53

Steven Ocone wrote:

> You can wrap plumbers teflon tape or dental floss over the
> cork. The cork and wood maybe saturated with cork grease and
> the glue may not adhere.
>

But, to be clear, this is a temporary fix. I carry a roll of Teflon tape in my clarinet case and it has saved me on a couple of occasions. But it has drawbacks - the biggest, I find, is that it tends to move - bunch up toward the shoulder of the tenon - and needs to be re-wrapped fairly often. Cork is still the best long-term option.

It should go without saying that you need to clean the tenon wood thoroughly before you cement a cork to it.

Karl

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 Re: glue for cork
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2019-11-07 18:19

Diverging slightly, does anyone have any experience using TechCork (which I see at MusicMedic) for tenons? It's apparently a composite of cork and rubber. How does it perform and how durable it is compared to natural cork?

What about the compressed cork sheets they sell at Ferree's Tools?

Karl

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 Re: glue for cork
Author: Bob Bernardo 
Date:   2019-11-07 23:24

No Karl, I haven't tried it yet. Thanks for the info, I'll order some and let players know.

One thing not covered on the videos for cork replacement is after the new cork is on the joint I usually wrap the jointed cork with thick rubber bands, maybe just one, and this pushes/presses the cork more tightly while the contact cement dries, maybe an hour or so. Then I will trim the cork down using one of those sandpaper nail files, until you get the correct thickness of the cork. You want a very tight fit, so use cork grease at this point. The new cork should last a number of years. Maybe 3 years before the joint gets wobbles again. A lot of players don't realize you can get air leaks from poor fitting and old cork on the joints. Needless to say this can cause all sorts of horn issues when practicing and playing. There's nothing better than a horn that seals for about 1 minute.


Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces


Yamaha Artist 2015




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 Re: glue for cork
Author: Bob Bernardo 
Date:   2019-11-07 23:33

Karl, I looked up Techcork and I have used it. More for automotive fun. It works OK for clarinets but I like the feel of regular cork. Techcork is available in a lot of good auto repair stores as gaskets and it's not expensive at all. If the cork is dried out, simply wet it for a few minutes and then it won't crack when trying to bend it. If you don't have any cork around this works just fine. You can also get contact cement in auto stores.


Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces


Yamaha Artist 2015




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 Re: glue for cork
Author: Roxann 
Date:   2019-11-08 01:40

You folks are ALWAYS a wealth of information! THANK YOU!!!

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 Re: glue for cork
Author: Steven Ocone 2017
Date:   2019-11-08 03:07

Techcork type material isn't ideal for tenon corks. It is not as compressible or sandable. I use it everyday for key "corks".

Steven Ocone
Ann & Steve's Music

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 Re: glue for cork
Author: clarnibass 
Date:   2019-11-08 11:34

>> does anyone have any experience using TechCork (which I see at MusicMedic) for tenons? It's apparently a composite of cork and rubber. How does it perform and how durable it is compared to natural cork? <<

It's far worse. Like Steve wrote, it's not as compressible so it lacks what's needed to seal, grip firmly, but also have a nice feel. I occasionally see it, probably done by someone who didn't have real cork.
BTW it's also known as gumim cork and rubber cork (or rubco for short), depending where you buy it from.

>> What about the compressed cork sheets they sell at Ferree's Tools? <<

If you mean Ferree's version of agglomerated cork (that is not rubber cork / techcork / gummi cork) then it's the worst. I wouldn't even use it for linkages, which is techcork's best use.

As others said contact glue is best for tenon corks, but...

>> The cork and wood maybe saturated with cork grease and the glue may not adhere. <<

>> It should go without saying that you need to clean the tenon wood thoroughly before you cement a cork to it. <<

Yes, preferably with something that doesn't leave residue or an extremely thin invisible film that makes gluing worse.
However it can be tricky with the original cork. If it got unglued because something penetrated inside it could be a little difficult to completely remove.

Also a question is whether it separated at the seam or some random place, or not at all? The overlap seam in particular can be problematic to re-glue with contact glue, even after cleaning as thoroughly as possible it might not work great. You can sand it slightly to get a fresh surface which could help sometimes.

If it's not separated, you'd have to cut it to remove it first and then you get a butt joint. If it's separated at a random place then it is also a butt joint. Either way that's not great.

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 Re: glue for cork
Author: m1964 
Date:   2019-11-08 17:03

IMHO, since pre-cut tenon cork is available from so many vendors, I dot see any advantage in trying to re-glue old cork or use teflon tape.
Even if the linkage key has to be removed, the whole thing takes under 30 min. for a non- professional to do.
I believe I was advised (on this forum) to use 3/64" thick cork, which worked fine and on one or two occasions I used 1/16" cork, that I had to sand down slightly.
This is the case when doing it once, right, saves any headaches later.
Also, if not sure, replacing a tenon cork on a plastic clarinet (if you got one) as a training exercise would give more confidence when fixing wooden clarinet.



Post Edited (2019-11-08 17:05)

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 Re: glue for cork
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2019-11-09 21:55
Attachment:  P7220001 (3).JPG (683k)
Attachment:  P7220004.JPG (673k)
Attachment:  P7220005.JPG (686k)
Attachment:  P7220003.JPG (654k)
Attachment:  P7220002 (2).JPG (691k)

Tech cork is no good for tenons. It has been used by some makers (Amati used it in the '80s) and while initial results may be good, over a relatively short time it does compress and not recover so the joints will become loose. Being a rubberised cork, it doesn't stand up too well to being greased as grease and oils can perish rubber.

I generally use it instead of natural cork for key corks on clarinets due to its durability, but only in specific places - it's best used on the top joint side and trill keys, under adjusting screws and on linkages, but on open standing keys I prefer felt or ultrasuede on key feet as tech cork is too noisy for that as is natural cork. The only place I use natural cork on clarinets are the tenon corks, cork pads and the throat A key stopper as that's easier to shape being a thick piece of cork.

I use contact adhesive for tenon corks, key corks and felts, shellac for cork and leather pads and hot glue for synthetic pads. I never reglue a loose tenon cork as chances are it'll come off again. Best emergency repair is to wrap the loose tenon cork with PTFE tape or thread to temporarily keep it in place, then have it replaced at the earliest opportunity.

I had a recently bought brand new Buffet RC come in and the tenon corks had all failed on that. One was 'repaired' under warranty by the company that sold it, but they poured a load of superglue onto it and it ran down the front of the top joint - and they're meant to be woodwind specialists! When it came in for a service after the warranty period expired, I replaced that tenon cork and had to clean up all the superglue that ran down and got smeared on the front of the top joint. See attachments - last photo was after cleaning all the superglue off and before replacing the tenon cork. Do not use superglue as a fix as it can go very wrong very quickly and chances are it won't work anyway. Superglue has its place in woodwind repair, but this isn't one.

Chris.

Post Edited (2019-11-09 22:01)

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 Re: glue for cork
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2019-11-09 22:34

Chris P wrote:

> [Tech cork is] best used on the top joint side and trill keys, under
> adjusting screws and on linkages, but on open standing keys I
> prefer felt or ultrasuede on key feet as tech cork is too noisy
> for that as is natural cork.

I'm not sure what you mean by "linkages" - which places are they? Do you mean between the top LH (F#) ring and the thumb ring and the lever by which the LH F/C moves the RH key?

By "key feet" do you mean the "crow's foot" that links RH F/C to RH E/B and F#/C#? Do you have others in mind?

What is your opinion of leather on key feet? Do you find that felt tends to compress and need readjustment to keep everything closing properly?

> I use ... hot glue for synthetic pads.

I have no experience installing synthetic pads. Is there a reason why hot glue is better than shellac for them?

> Best emergency repair is to wrap the loose
> tenon cork with PTFE tape or thread to temporarily keep it in
> place, then have it replaced at the earliest opportunity.
>
Is PTFE tape the same as Teflon tape? What kind of thread is actually best suited to this? I've seen bassoons and even a few recorders with tenons done permanently with thread, and I've wondered if there was a best thickness or material the thread should be.

Karl

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 Re: glue for cork
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2019-11-10 12:44

Q. "I'm not sure what you mean by "linkages" - which places are they? Do you mean between the top LH (F#) ring and the thumb ring and the lever by which the LH F/C moves the RH key?"

A. Linkages and especially overlevers are where I use rubco (tech cork) as well as coating it with graphite to make it slippery - the LH1 ring key and RH F/C key overlevers and the linkage arms on clarinets where the LH levers aren't pinned benefit from rubco instead of natural cork due to its durability.

Q. "By "key feet" do you mean the "crow's foot" that links RH F/C to RH E/B and F#/C#? Do you have others in mind?"

A. The key feet in question are on the thumb ring (underlever), the RH ring key linkage, the LH F/C key foot, the RH E/B key linkage arm (or underside of the LH E/B lever on clarinets without pinned LH levers) are where I prefer a softer material like felt or ultrasuede to significantly reduce key noise compared to using cork when they return and also on the crows foot itself.

Q. "What is your opinion of leather on key feet? Do you find that felt tends to compress and need readjustment to keep everything closing properly?"

A. I won't use leather at all on keywork. Rubco is much better as leather tends to perish over time and that can make things noisy. The only places I tend to use felt or ultrasuede between two interlinked keys are the crows foot and sometimes on the LH2 ring key linkage to keep mechanical noise down and while they do compress, you have to work with that in mind and things will settle down and stay in regulation. Also take into account such things as slop in the keywork, sponginess of the pads and also torsion in the metal when regulating clarinets as you can't be too textbook about things - work with the properties of the materials instead of against them.

Leather also creates friction and the last thing you want on any linkages is friction. Another thing that can happen with leather is the chemicals used to tan it can react with the copper content of brass, nickel silver and silver alloys and leave a dark green greasy residue.

Q. "I have no experience installing synthetic pads. Is there a reason why hot glue is better than shellac for them?"

A. Synthetic pads are usually made from high density foam of some kind or other, so they're easily damaged, distorted or melted by high temperatures. Using a much lower temperature melting/sticking point adhesive such as hot glue is better for them compared to shellac as that needs a relatively high temperature to melt it and make it stick. That's not a problem on cork, leather or skin pads, but synthetic pads just won't tolerate those kind of temperatures.

Q. "Is PTFE tape the same as Teflon tape?"

A. PTFE tape, teflon tape and plumbers' tape are all the one and same thing - PTFE is short for Polytetrafluoroethylene and the trade name/brand name for that being Teflon.

Q. What kind of thread is actually best suited to this? I've seen bassoons and even a few recorders with tenons done permanently with thread, and I've wondered if there was a best thickness or material the thread should be."

A. For emergencies, any kind of thread you can lay your hands on is fine for tying on loose tenon corks with - if someone has an emergency sewing kit or even tearing a thread from your sock will do in an emergency as that will be enough get you through a concert provided all the bits of tenon cork are held together and there aren't any gaps or missing bits of cork that can cause a leak.

For threading tenons on recorders or bassoons instead of using cork, waxed cotton or hemp thread is good for that. You want a fairly thick thread for threading tenons. You can buy waxed hemp thread from bagpipe suppliers in either yellow or black, but the black waxed thread will mark things whereas the yellow waxed thread is usually waxed with beeswax. If waxing your own unwaxed thread, beeswax is ideal.

Chris.

Post Edited (2019-11-10 16:00)

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