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 BD5 mouthpiece
Author: Gene 
Date:   2019-10-23 23:48

looking for reeds wide enough to fit table and a recomended size .The normal vandoren reed is not wide enough?

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2019-10-24 00:44

The important match between reed and mouthpiece is the window. I have used German cut (real German cut reeds such as Vandoren White Master) reeds on standard Boehm mouthpieces as long as the reed was just barely wide enough to cover the window beneath it (that is, it does not even need to cover the entire width of the side rails).


If for some reason the reed width vis a vis the table is paramount for you, you could try soprano saxophone reeds or better yet the Legere European Signature reeds which are about as wide as soprano saxophone reeds and have a host of benefits over cane!




................Paul Aviles

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: Gene 
Date:   2019-10-24 02:29

Thanks

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: Bob Barnhart 2017
Date:   2019-10-24 04:37

Gene, I agree with Paul but seem to recall that Gonzales GD reeds ( which I played some tears ago) were a bit wider than V12s, or the Pilgerstorfer reeds (Dolce, Exquisit) that I play now. I think the P/S reeds are 13mm at the tip and 11mm at the heel according to their website (http://www.pilgerstorfer.net/index_en.html#).

Bob Barnhart

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: Bob Bernardo 
Date:   2019-10-24 08:00

Why are you looking for a different reed? Maybe the BD5 is messed up? Most of them are! The rails are way too wide so the reeds don't respond very well, stuffy usually, but players like that open tip. Post a pic. My guess is you should have it refaced and have the rails narrowed. Then finding reeds that work will make like sweet again. I probably just made a whole lot of BD5 players angry, but before responding and looking bad, first have your mouthpieces adjusted. Then you are granted permission to post!  :)

Paul and Bob are correct with using narrow German cut reeds; this avoids the thick wide rails, but it doesn't fix the problem with these mouthpieces. It surely helps the mouthpiece to respond a whole lot better.


Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces


Yamaha Artist 2015




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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: JTJC 
Date:   2019-10-24 15:15

So, Vandoren make the BD5 mouthpiece with rails that are too wide for its own reeds. That’s a design choice. Using a reed that’s narrower than the rails effectively narrows the width of the rails, or gives the same effect as narrower rails (so it seems to be said here). So why didn’t Vandoren make the BD5 rails a width that matched its own reeds to give the effect it wanted more directly with the BD5? Or is it that wide rails + narrower reed doesn’t give the same effect as narrower rails and matching reed width? If so, what is the difference?

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2019-10-24 16:55

MY point was only that you need to cover the window or the system won't work.


Yes, narrower reeds DO circumvent SOME of the effects of wide rails, but I used German sized reeds for the overall effect of the cut against the facing. For example, the Legere German cut reeds work really well on many standard Boehm facing mouthpieces unless the window is too big (ie Fobes mouthpieces).


Vandoren designs mouthpieces that are compatible with their reeds. Anything contrary would be stupid. Of course they did quietly stop making the Masters mouthpieces with their own specially designed ligatures because (I assume), in the end, it was a stupid idea.




.............Paul Aviles



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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: fernie121 
Date:   2019-10-24 17:58

The wide rails, I think, are just an attempt to darken the sound. What it really does is make the sound dull and unresponsive. BD5 is a very fine mouthpiece...once it’s adjusted.

Bb Clarinet: Ridenour Libertas, Mouthpiece: Bernardo’s 1940 Cicero Reeds: Behn Aria 4, Ligature: BG duo

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: JTJC 
Date:   2019-10-24 18:43


“Vandoren designs mouthpieces that are compatible with their reeds. Anything contrary would be stupid.”

“The wide rails, I think, are just an attempt to darken the sound.”

Yes, the BD5 rails that are wider than Vandoren reeds on purpose (design choice), but why? Is it just to ensure the BD5 is relatively darker when used with lots types of reeds, including Vandoren. If this is the case it seems you’d get the darkest sound possible with any Vandoren reed on a BD5, as you’d maximise rail width with any of their reeds.

I’m sure it’s all more complicated than this.

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: Bob Bernardo 
Date:   2019-10-24 19:45

You ALL are correct actually in your observations! Way to go.


Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces


Yamaha Artist 2015




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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: Arnoldstang 
Date:   2019-10-24 22:53

Wide rails only dampen more if the reed is wide. ie. If the reed covers only half the rail then it isn’t being excessively dampened. The width of the window works in conjunction with the width of the rails.

Freelance woodwind performer

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: donald 
Date:   2019-10-25 10:56

I recall Josef Balogh had a mouthpiece he liked with very thick rails... To counter this, when preparing a Reed he intended to use with that mouthpiece he sanded the sides of the Reed to narrow the with... Reducing the contact with the rails (relevant to the point made above).

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: ruben 
Date:   2019-10-25 12:08

Bob: I simply don't understand why this Vandoren mouthpiece has become so popular. Thick, thuddy and dead-toned.

rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
JL-Clarinette

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: nellsonic 
Date:   2019-10-25 12:21

ruben wrote:

> Bob: I simply don't understand why this Vandoren mouthpiece has
> become so popular. Thick, thuddy and dead-toned.
>

Anthony McGill and Boris Allakhverdyan both sound GREAT on it. Ive heard them both playing it live in the last year.

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: TomS 
Date:   2019-10-25 18:12

Attempts to get that "nice, dark sound" (IMHO, that can't be heard past your section neighbors) usually results in "dead, uninteresting sound". One way to do this is wide rails, especially the tip rail ... and this often slows the response down. No free lunch ... it's a balance of compromises. I once asked Charles Bay "how to you get a "dark" sounding MP" ... and his reply was "wide tip rail ... but if you overdo it, the response suffers" ... You have to play louder/work harder to compensate for the quantity and weighting of the overtones that are less abundant with the "nice, dark sound" ...

One of my (now deceased) teachers came back from the UK playing a Vandoren A2 crystal and Vandoren German cut reeds. It worked, but you had to perfectly center the reed. And, he got a beautiful, haunting, wailing, centered sound with this setup ... when he tried out for the local symphony, the conductor told him: "Okay Paul, you can play principal, but I want for you to darken your tone". Well, it took him a while to "fix" this ... I think he was hoping that the conductor would get used to his sound. .

Tom

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: ruben 
Date:   2019-10-25 18:34

TomS: I think it's the power of suggestion and a visual impression. People see a crystal mouthpiece and think the sound is bright, as in "crystal clear". Actually, crystal can produce a rather dark, hollow sound.

rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
JL-Clarinette

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: Bob Bernardo 
Date:   2019-10-25 20:43

Hi Ruben! Good questions. I don't know the answers. In fact pretty much all of the major large mouthpiece makers seem to be doing thick rails and strange tip openings, as we all know. Also very small bores. It bothers me greatly. Yet the German mouthpiece companies haven't made too many changes through the last 70 years and their mouthpieces are very consistent. Yet if we look at the old Kaspar and Chedeville mouthpieces they had thin or very thin rails. Also all of the Selmer's did too. My guess is the people designing mouthpieces now are very stinky players or maybe not players at all. So the Quality Control is not there. Boy, if these companies hired just one really talented musician to help them out, the mouthpiece world would be very different. There wouldn't be anyone selling mouthpieces for $700 and up. Plus they don't play!

Some of the mouthpieces being made today show great promise for around $125 US. Including the BD5's. It would be great if these mouthpiece adjustments were done at the factories and not have the players turn to refacers.


Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces


Yamaha Artist 2015




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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: donald 
Date:   2019-10-27 03:37

My problem with the BD5 is that they've tried to put a bit more focus and "concentration" into the sound by shortening the lay. I wouldn't say the tip opening is "wrong", but rather that pairing that length with that opening encourages a poor embouchure and creates "back-pressure".
Of course, there are going to be perfectly fine players who LOVE the shorter facing. In about 5 years these BD5s will all be on ebay used/cheap and Bob and I can make money by refacing them and selling them to our students.

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: D Dow 
Date:   2019-10-29 21:14

If some observations here serve me correct...lets back up a bit..i realize some people here make a living making mouthpiece..but the changes in the way the cane grows and is harvested is quite different with the way the industry cuts the cane!

Kuckmeier is now producing mouthpieces for German clarinet that use French cane...this is a recent development because we all know a harder reed requires a longer curing process!

many german players are switching to Bohm clarinet style mouthpieces I have not tried any of these new Bohm style german mouthpiece.

My student plays on a German system clarinet and I have played on the German system..in other words some of the above info has to be seriously updated to be relevant. Much of the other problem is that reeds made now are much softer and mushier than before...this in turn means less resistance for the facing so makers are now adapting to this new polemic. I want to bite my tongue but basically we need a proper resistance no matter the tip..so now
what is going on in Germany is they are designing mouthpiece for the French reed and naturally opening the tip up!

https://www.playnick.com/index.php?cmd=s&id=146

are adapting to this reality. Vandoren and other makers are using much more open models to adapt the soft spongy reed we now use.

The BD5 while not my cup of tea is a compromise to achieve this balance...so the BD7 which I tried with a 3 reed is much better and less stuffy...so some of this is an industry change in developing a more dense sound for the clarinet as of old without using the hard hard reeds of old this also allow the reed manufacturers to harvest and make cane that is not cured for the proper time period....global warming may be a big factor on cane these days for sure!

David Dow

Post Edited (2019-10-29 21:17)

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2019-10-29 21:43

or you could just use Legere






.................Paul Aviles



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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: fernie121 
Date:   2019-10-29 23:25

Richard Hawkins in an interview on Clarinet made a similar point about cane nowadays. He has switch to Legere exclusively.

Bb Clarinet: Ridenour Libertas, Mouthpiece: Bernardo’s 1940 Cicero Reeds: Behn Aria 4, Ligature: BG duo

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2019-10-29 23:35

That's funny. I just found a few old Hawkins "R" facing that play great.


If the new ones were any good I might have switched to Hawkins exclusively!



:-)


.............Paul Aviles



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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: fernie121 
Date:   2019-10-30 01:10

Hawkin’s new mouthpieces are geared to a similar sound concept that the BD5 is geared towards. A dark sound. Not my cup of tea but at least they don’t kill your embouchure the way a stock BD5 does.

Bb Clarinet: Ridenour Libertas, Mouthpiece: Bernardo’s 1940 Cicero Reeds: Behn Aria 4, Ligature: BG duo

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: JF Clarinet 
Date:   2019-11-01 03:16

My problem with the BD5 is consistency. I can find a BD5 that does not need adjusting to play great and how I want it to sound, it just takes me up to 20 to find the one. Being able to try so many at once is a privilege I have because of where I live, and I don't recommend BD5 to friends of mine without the opportunity to try a ton. I don't think there is an inherit problem with the design of the BD5 based on my own personal experience and that of my colleagues and teachers. I understand some say it has a dead sound and I'm sure your experience is valid; I have heard too many great players on BD5 to think it's a dead mouthpiece. I find BD5 a little less flexible than other mouthpieces ive tried, but it still feels comfortable and flexible enough to get the job done well.

There are so many people who hand finish the mouthpieces at the vandoren factory. The bottom of the vandoren mouthpieces have markers of who finished them (triangle, horseshoe, etc), and there are so many different ones I find a new symbol each time I try out mouthpieces. I think this may have to do with the extreme inconsistency. Most of the ones finished by the same person seem to have similar characteristics, but there are so many different ones. Buying a BD5 finished by triangle is different than a square one. I can't say all BD5 are good or bad, because of the consistent differences I've noticed comparing ones with different markings.

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: igalkov 
Date:   2019-11-01 09:50

JF, thanks for that info, it’s really interesting. Which mark you found suits best to you personally?

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: ruben 
Date:   2019-11-01 11:15

JF Clarinet: Are there really people that handfinish mouthpieces at the Vandoren factory? Their machines are so high tech these days that I would have thought everything was done mechanically. They did have Jean-Paul at the head -office in the old days that refaced mouthpieces: but only those of the "stars". I don't understand why Vandoren mouthpieces should be inconsistent PS: I don't use them, but own several.

rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
JL-Clarinette

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: Anonymoose 
Date:   2019-11-01 17:31

JFClarinet: The symbols at the bottom of the Vandoren mouthpiece represent certain people refacing the mouthpieces? There are so many mouthpieces being churned out of the Vandoren factory that I find it hard to believe that each and every one is being hand-finished by people.
There are a few variants within one model of mouthpiece (13 series, profile 88, or traditional facing, or a combination of traditional with profile 88), PLUS other mouthpiece models, being produced, how can the person keep up with the demand of hand-finishing all those mouthpieces?
I don't know what the symbols mean specifically. Maybe symbols represent the different factories. It would be nice if someone here could clarify.


edit: clarity



Post Edited (2019-11-01 19:05)

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: Anonymoose 
Date:   2019-11-01 17:44

Certain people keep saying that the BD5 is a dead, out of tune mouthpiece. As nellsonic mentioned earlier in the thread, Anthony McGill and Boris Allakhverdyan use this mouthpiece. Ricardo Morales, Alessandro Carbonare, Jon Manasse, Martin Frost, and John Bruce Yeh also use (or used) this mouthpiece (to name a few more).
They're amazing players who aren't out of tune and who aren't dead sounding. I understand that certain people have their opinions on sound and response, and I advocate the sharing of our ideas but there is just so much negativity on this mouthpiece on this forum... Sorry for my rant, but I needed to mention this here.

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: fernie121 
Date:   2019-11-01 19:11

Ricardo Morales uses a BD5D which is different, and Fröst uses a BD7 which is also different. I’m not sure if McGill uses the BD5 full time as he also uses other stuff. A common thing that many BD5 players do is use very hard reeds, like V12 4. Why? Because they have to seriously blow to project. It’s not IMPOSSIBLE to be heard in an orchestra with a BD5. But it is a lot of work. Not to mention in general, many clarinetists all over the country who use darker setups simply don’t have the tonal presence that clarinetists of the past did. Sorry, but they just don’t.

Bb Clarinet: Ridenour Libertas, Mouthpiece: Bernardo’s 1940 Cicero Reeds: Behn Aria 4, Ligature: BG duo

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2019-11-01 20:39

I wholeheartedly agree with that assessment. A colleague of mine was not completely sold on Morales' playing for that very reason.




............Paul Aviles



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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: Ed 
Date:   2019-11-01 20:51

Quote:

Not to mention in general, many clarinetists all over the country who use darker setups simply don’t have the tonal presence that clarinetists of the past did. Sorry, but they just don’t


Great observation

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: JTJC 
Date:   2019-11-01 23:01

I doubt all the top players using the BD5 are in fact using the same mouthpiece. I’m certain they’ve all had their selected BD5 adjusted, lay, tip, baffle, finish etc. Given how personal a mpc is, is it likely Morales, Carbonare, Yeo etc, who all use different instruments, all use exactly the same mpc dimensions?

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: JF Clarinet 
Date:   2019-11-02 11:45

igalkov:
I am currently using a horseshoe marked one.


Ruben:
I can't prove that the hand finishers actually exist or are in the same factory or anything like that. I can tell you that according to page 9 of this product catalog http://jedistar.com/images/December2018/Vandoren_Catalog_2007.pdf, it claims "Each mouthpiece is hand finished at the baffle, walls, and tip rail. Master craftsmen finish and adjust each
mouthpiece to surpass the most critical examinations of professional musicians." I believe in marketing presentations given by Vandoren representatives that they mention this as well, but I do not remember their presentations in perfect detail. I have spoken with several Vandoren artists who have also told me this and recommended certain symbols to me. Most people (outside of marketing materials) do not talk about the hand finishers, instead just mentioning the markings and which ones they like most. A Vandoren artist helped me pick out one a few years ago and only had me try ones with a specific marking. I recently heard from a colleague that Yehuda Gilad encourages students use ones with a specific marking on it (I forget which one).

Anonymoose: Your question overlaps with Ruben's so look at that. I'll add that I have seen roughly 8 different markings so far and am aware of several others that I haven't run into yet personally. There are a lot of markings, and I do not think Vandoren has as many factories as they do markings. I will also vouch for extreme similarities between mouthpieces with the same markings. Last time I tried 20, 6 or 7 were triangles, and all triangles played similarly to each other. There were slight differences between the triangles, but not as much difference as between the circles and the triangles I tried. Visible differences are sometimes observable with certain markings sometimes consistently having, for example, wider rails. I'm inclined to believe the hand finisher claims due to the noticeable (at least to me and several people I have spoken with) differences between different markings, and slight differences between mouthpieces with the same marking that could be explained by the human element.

Going with the hand finisher concept, I would guess that each of them have different styles and preferences as a result of their own setups and training, but all follow similar guidelines for each model of mouthpiece. A mouthpiece finished by one may have a slightly different intention than a mouthpiece finished by another, which would explain differing preferences between markings, and potentially could explain why pros with different setups can still use the "same" mouthpiece, as the dimensions are not 100% the same for each BD5.

Hand finishing by many different people may be a logistical decision by Vandoren, but I would theorize that it also follows a similar logic to how their boxes of reeds work. The reason (according to Vandoren representatives) that within a box of reeds there are several different strengths of, let's say, 4's is so that someone looking for a reed harder than a 4 but softer than a 4.5 can find something that works and someone looking for a reed softer than a 4 but harder than 3.5+ can find something that works. Different situations call for different reeds, different players call for different reeds. The advantage is that people will likely find something that works for them, but may have to throw away some reeds or work on them a lot to make them playable. Applying this same thought to mouthpieces, going through a box of 10, the differences resulting from different hand finishers would (in an ideal world) allow people to find one that works for them. Some of the same model of mouthpiece will work for someone, but others will either be a lost cause or need to be refaced to be playable. I don't know that this is their thinking with mouthpieces, but it would make sense to me to have similar logic driving resulting in variation among individual product lines by the same company.

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: DaphnisetChloe 
Date:   2019-11-02 13:37

I think it's a bit ridiculous to criticize some of the best players out there just because you disagree with the setup they use. They are advancing clarinet playing in unprecedented ways. If they play on a BD5 with #4 reeds so what?

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: ruben 
Date:   2019-11-02 15:08

JF Clarinet (and not JL Clarinette, which I work for! ha ha). I suspect that if these Vandoren mouthpieces were really hand-finished, they would cost considerably more. It's to Vandoren's credit that their products are reasonably priced. The Vandoren stars get special treatment: either a huge selection to choose from and/or customized hand-finishing. Just to conclude: identical mouthpieces-to the extent that they can be identical-would seem to me easier to achieve than identical reeds. You can cut two reeds identically with the most accurate tools that ever existed and they won't be identical simply because the cane isn't. When dealing with ebonite, this should be less of a factor.

rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
JL-Clarinette

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: fernie121 
Date:   2019-11-02 16:42

I was by no means saying those players with dark setups sounded bad. Of course, they could play circles around me or most players on this board. I’m simply pointing out a common characteristic of players with “dark” setups. I disagree with the approach to sound. And I disagree with the comfort level, or lack thereof, when playing something like a BD5 with a 4 reed. There are many other and maybe even more important aspects of playing the clarinet. Musicality is probably most important, and Morales who I mentioned earlier, is one of the best.

Bb Clarinet: Ridenour Libertas, Mouthpiece: Bernardo’s 1940 Cicero Reeds: Behn Aria 4, Ligature: BG duo

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: gwie 
Date:   2019-11-02 23:08

Setups vary wildly, and sometimes the folks at the top-tier performing situations end up with approaches that the average player simply isn't going to use.

Similarly, on the string side of things, one of my friends has a violin setup that I would term "aggressive" and I think that up close to the ear the majority of people would not find the sound all that attractive. In the context of their string quartet though, it works brilliantly (for context--his ensemble has grand prizes at Fischoff and Naumburg and are faculty at a major US conservatory). We notice that many players tend to prefer violins that are "dark" and warm-sounding up close, but especially in less-expensive instruments that doesn't translate into the kind of projection one would need to fill a 2000-seat concert hall. What the audience hears out in the hall is completely different from what is coming out from the perspective of the player.

It certainly makes selecting instruments (and related equipment) an interesting process, and I know my students are sometimes curious as to what informs my decisions when trying instruments since my criteria can seem so different than theirs.

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: DaphnisetChloe 
Date:   2019-11-03 00:29

Fernie121 - thanks for clarifying and fair enough. I too wouldn't choose an overly dark setup to play on, but the great variety of setups and tonal concepts out there is part of what makes listening to other musicians so enjoyable, combined with as you say their musicality.

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: Bob Bernardo 
Date:   2019-11-05 22:06

Fernie121 - I agree with all of your assessments. When I look at the BD5's and work on them, a lot of them for fellow players, I've worked on perhaps 50, BD5 mouthpieces. What is interesting is once these are adjusted they are far from DARK sounding. The baffle/chamber is not too deep so this produces a brighter sound if the mouthpiece is adjusted correctly. And it projects. But they need to be fixed. It's a confusing mouthpiece, because of the rails.

I've played at Orchestra Hall in Chicago and a dead dark sounding BD5 won't project in there. It's that simple, but as we now know if the refacer is good, he or she can get the BD5's to play really well in this type of a huge hall. Also the horns surely can decide which mouthpiece we might want to use. I know 3 out of the 4 Chicago Sym clarinet players and they all use different horns and mouthpieces. Let's face it this is a hard hall to play in. It also changes fast as people enter the hall. But also from playing in this hall we as players do NOT need hard reeds and large tip openings. As I stated above Mitchell Lurie was with Chicago and I think he used the lightest French style setup of all. Very light reeds, he used 3 1/2 strengths of his own brand, which I made. His mouthpiece was made by Pomarico. His reeds were not meant for the advanced pros but for advanced students mainly. His reeds were on the light side. Again, that old school French style which of course still sounds very good today. In the mid 1980's I did work with Mitchell to beef up his reeds just a shade. Since sales doubled to over 1 1/2 million of his reeds sold per year, he was indeed happy. He got 5 cents per reed sold.

We can all play on open mouthpieces with stiff reeds. But why suffer with embouchure issues if we don't have to. Clarinet playing shouldn't be painful!

One last comment, yes John Bruce Yeh uses a stiff setup but he plays with a double lip embouchure. Needless to say he probably doesn't bite nor have sore lips. Yes unusual for a double lip player, but this works for him and he sounds excellent. Is John using a smaller tip opening refaced by someone? I'm not sure. I'll try to text him.

I'm not saying BD5's are good mouthpieces. I think they are horrible! But if players want to have these adjusted they can project just fine and have no issues with embouchures. We need to be opened to the new type of schooling which is freedom in the mouthpieces. Dark is gone now. We know this now after some confusing years. All of the great players are switching over or have switched to mouthpieces that ping, ring, and project. Slightly bright sounding when you are close up. We can hear the sound differences just in the past year from Ricardo with the Philadelphia Orchestra. He's on new horns and mouthpieces. I'm happy! It's amazing how things change in just 1 year or less. I look forward to seeing changes in sound concepts the next couple of years. Maybe these places like Vandoren and Selmer will fix and make much better mouthpieces. I see these Custom mouthpieces selling for a lot of money, $700 and up to $2000. Not needed. Don't buy them. The sound differences between a fixed up Selmer Concept or Vandoren BD5 isn't worth that $700 to $2000 price tag. In reality these Custom mouthpieces only cost about $35. That's a huge markup. It's just not worth it.


Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces


Yamaha Artist 2015




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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: Kalashnikirby 
Date:   2019-11-05 22:54

The BD5 debate (or mpc debate in general) has quite heated up, I feel. No matter what others say about Vandoren mpcs, they’re reasonable being now almost half the price of what „decent“ makers ask for.

But the main reason I post in this thread: According to my new teacher, the BD5 is a Playnick B2 copy!! Come to think of it, that only makes sense, but I can’t quite see what lead to his claim, nor did I think they share the same measurements. Though I could imagine the tonal concepts are similar.
Truth be told, I’m neither a fan of the BD5 or the B2 or whatever it’s called nowadays; then again, the dynamics and projection are really solid on these, I couldn’t deny that.
Again, my ongoing mpc search has only proven that I can deem myself lucky to still own a Viotto and a more solid examplar of the B40, because they WORK, and some of the more modern appraised mpcs don’t. That is to say, for me. Nevertheless, the BD5 has something about it that justifies it’s current immense popularity. It’s probably still cheaper to chose one and have a bit of work done to it than to pay 250€ for a Playnick, which also has some variance to it..

Best regards
Christian

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 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: michele zukovsky 
Date:   2019-11-11 03:36

the BD5---
hmmmm....beautiful sound, for sure, but i miss the nuance and color changes. no diminuendo...it drives like a huge car. and no center of sound to rest on.
perhaps the BD4?

i find that for my advanced students, the B40 lyre kind of does everything sort of, which is what you want in a mouthpiece.
beware of a mouthpiece with a gorgeous sound.....

zukovsky@usc.edu

Reply To Message
 
 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: donald 
Date:   2019-11-11 11:56

I completely agree with Michele Zukovsky about the BD5, I played a BD5D for the first few months of this year and had precisely those issues PLUS my embouchure became very tired (Bob will love hearing that). The B40 Lyre is not for me, but I know several very fine players who use it, so you all must be on to something there!

Reply To Message
 
 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: Ed 
Date:   2019-11-11 21:12

Quote:

beware of a mouthpiece with a gorgeous sound.....


That is great advice. It is very easy to get enticed by the sound one produces on a particular mouthpiece, barrel, instrument, etc. and fail to notice issues. Over the years there were mouthpieces I tried and found I was able produce a lovely sound but that when I walked into a gig there were issues-tuning, projection, response, flexibility or finding reeds that matched.

It is like dating someone who is a gorgeous and trying to base a relationship on that alone.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: ruben 
Date:   2019-11-11 22:28

What do you use on your Wurlitzers, Michele? Wurlitzer mouthpieces?

rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
JL-Clarinette

Reply To Message
 
 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: Bob Bernardo 
Date:   2019-11-12 00:49

I'm not sure if she will pop back in. Michele has 2 or 3 mouthpieces, different tip openings. But none are very open. I don't recall what brand she is using. Hopefully she will pop back in. She's a very nice person. Full of a wealth of powerful information. I think she still teaches, not sure though, may have retired fully. Her email is above with her post so maybe write to her? She tends to pop in here sometimes and I wish she would stop in all of the time!

Good question!


Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces


Yamaha Artist 2015




Post Edited (2019-11-12 00:52)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: michele zukovsky 
Date:   2019-11-12 12:47

i am now playing the kuckmeir play easy, before zinner stopped making mouthpieces.
now---they are no good and i am not happy.
the facing is a d2 and i don't want to go to a real open mouthpiece like the vandoren...too open.
so---if anyone has some old mouthpieces that are too close --please let me know!

i got an awesome set of wurlitzer clarinets...nice sound and fun to play.
i just avoid playing in groups that have an oboe in them...aaaaccckkkkk.
i make my own reeds...

zukovsky@usc.edu

Post Edited (2019-11-12 12:57)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: YT 
Date:   2019-11-12 13:35

Hi Michele,

I'm a German clarinet player who plays German clarinets (Wurlitzer and Leitner und Kraus) too. Have you ever tried mouthpieces by Leitner und Kraus? I can only recommend them. Great material and many different facings, also many traditional German facings. They are a great substitute for Zinner blanks, even better in my opinion...

Reply To Message
 
 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: seabreeze 
Date:   2019-11-13 00:52

Leitner & Kraus are easy to deal with and have always answered any of my emails. In addition to rubber blanks, they have also developed some interesting kinds of wood blanks that are long-lasting and resist warping.
Have you ever tried the German AW mouthpieces? Their reasonably priced Boehm F105 model is easy to blow (not stuffy and resistant like the Kuckmeier Boehm models) and their German system models should be worth a try. (I think Wenzel Fuchs used to play AW mouthpieces before he started advertising Kuckmeiers).

See https://www.aw-woodwinds.eu/mouthpieces/en/.



Reply To Message
 
 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: donald 
Date:   2019-11-13 01:42

We have some Wurlitzer mouthpieces in mint condition that we'd be prepared to sell.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: michele zukovsky 
Date:   2019-11-13 02:51

hi donald,

i was not able to write you directly, but i would be very interested!
are they for the german clarinet?
what are the facing numbers?
and how old are they?


all best,


michele

zukovsky@usc.edu

Reply To Message
 
 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: donald 
Date:   2019-11-13 10:18

They are in my wife's mouthpiece storage area so when she gets home I'll email the details directly to you dn

Reply To Message
 
 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: Bob Bernardo 
Date:   2019-11-13 22:30

Michele you should still have my phone number. Email or call me regarding a mouthpiece.


Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces


Yamaha Artist 2015




Reply To Message
 
 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: D Dow 
Date:   2019-11-13 23:16

The Selmer Concept is so unlike a BD5 for you can do alot of color shaping and yet keep the tone in shape with less fatigue. The BD5 is quite short in facing as well as open so this over a long gig is tough..i did the whole nutcracker on one and was fried after that one....

so for me the Selmer Concept is very good right out of the box with the right reeds..for me Lepic 3.5 and the 3.5 plus..also the V12 3.25...also pitch is less flat than the Bd513 in the throat so the Concept is an incredible bargain. As to the Bd7 Vandy that I have yet to go and try but a some input would be great...back to cane and all of that but I found cane offered me more tonal colors etc.

The selmer conept records on microphones very nicely too..so for me getting it worked on is not needed..it is more like a Williamson Pyne in many respects..very deep and requires good input from the player~!

David Dow

Reply To Message
 
 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: klarisa 
Date:   2019-11-18 00:34

Frost on BD5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgZXvsg74eY

Ik like him...



Post Edited (2019-11-18 00:40)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: fernie121 
Date:   2019-11-18 03:37

Frost doesn’t play the BD5, he plays the BD7.

Bb Clarinet: Ridenour Libertas, Mouthpiece: Bernardo’s 1940 Cicero Reeds: Behn Aria 4, Ligature: BG duo

Reply To Message
 
 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: J. J. 
Date:   2019-11-18 09:49

Fernie, in your haste to correct someone, you neglected to consider whether or not Frost was playing a BD5 IN THAT VIDEO. Which... he is.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: michele zukovsky 
Date:   2019-11-18 11:28

i would be interested in trying the wurlitzer mpscs!

zukovsky@usc.edu

Reply To Message
 
 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: seabreeze 
Date:   2019-11-18 18:58

The Frost video was from several years ago, probably before Vandoren even had prototypes of the BD7 to try. In some later videos, he is playing a BD7. For many years, though, he played mostly Jim Kanter mouthpieces.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: BD5 mouthpiece
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2019-11-18 19:52

Dear Ms. Zukovsky,



Do you find the new Wurlitzer offerings (all the traditional facings available on Thomann) less than acceptable? If so, why?





................Paul Aviles



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