 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2019-10-14 16:33
It's probably common knowlegde that you need play the BC with a different embouchure. However, until today, I didn't realize how far you can go with your mouth... literally.
Check out this nice video about the BC in general: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21bcWIWJvFM&t=1216s
At 10:35 Laurent Ben Slimane explains how going further with your embouchure improves the sound. But look at just how much mouthpiece he manages to accomodate, pretty insane when I compare that to my playing or of those I know/ have seen play the BC, even on a professional level.
This had me wondering: Should I change my embouchure? Have I been doing it wrong all the time? I do realize you should use more of your mpc compared to the soprano clarinets, but how far is far enough? Or should one vary their positioning and settle on what suits them most? Personally, after watching this vid, I marked a spot 5mm away from where I usually "sit" on my mpc and found that made quite an extreme change. Anything beyond that, for now at least, makes the instrument unplayable and squeaky. Also, feels quite stressful for the musculature involved. You certainly need practice with that way of playing.
At any rate, there's always something new to learn in the clarinet world! Fellow BC players, do you also have this extreme approach?
There's probably other factors to consider, too, like type of mpc, the player's anatomy (lower facial height, maximum mouth opening, etc... this all can vary greatly), reed strength and so on
IMHO, any additional mm of "deeper" embouchure takes extra strength and seems to make circular breathing even harder, which I certainly dislike about this technique. But hopefully, practice will solve this too.
Best regards
Christian
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2019-10-14 17:21
There is a 'sweet spot' on every single reed mouthpiece no matter what instrument or size. Long facings require more mouthpiece. More mouthpiece may be right for your mouthpiece - or not. There are many ways to judge the sweet spot and one is to take more until it squeaks easily, then back off until it doesn't. Another way, which I find more difficult, is to slide a thin piece of paper between the reed and mouthpiece and mark on the reed where it stops. This isn't as accurate because of what the thickness of the paper is and whether the reed is actually flat or not. It you watch the amount of mouthpiece of fine players, they are at the sweet spot for their mouthpiece.
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2019-10-14 17:52
Thanks Ken. That's pretty much how I'd do it. Not saying above vid is BS, but it is a little dogmatic.
I've simply made a small cu in my mouthpiece rubber cushion, so my teeth lock in and see how that compares to what I'm used to. Another issue would be, that the Leblanc 430S I play has a rather flat angeled Neck, so the whole instrument needs to be moved a little.
I'm playing a Selmer Concept (long facing, open... love it!). MPCs on basses indeed have significant differences and I now find playing something else extremely difficult.
As always, great advice from the people on this forum. Thank you!
Post Edited (2019-10-14 17:53)
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2019-10-14 17:54
I never liked methods that put a target line on the reed. What do you then do with it? Your bottom lip goes on it? Past it? Bottom teeth on it?
I do like taking more mouthpiece in until things (pitch, tone, articulation) get wild and then backing off until you can control it. If you have been using hard reeds and biting the tip closed some you should experiment with going down in reed strength as you take more mouthpiece in.
The main thing I listen for is making the bass clarinet clarion range to sound more like the chalumeau of the soprano clarinet.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-10-14 17:54
Ken is on the money here. The marking of the reed may be helpful for some just to have some sort of visual of the target. I, however, find that the lip thickness and where the pressure point with your teeth actually comes into play can only be sussed out by doing it.
That brings us to the "squawk test" that was presented on this board a few years back by Tom Puwalski. He said something to the effect that he can easily switch to any mouthpiece by determining first where the fulcrum is (the point where the reed and mouthpiece come together). Beyond that point there is nothing but noise or no sound at all. What he did was to play open "G" continuously while slowly bringing in more and more mouthpiece. At some point you get a hideous SQUAWK. Just back of slightly from there and that is the "sweet spot" for that mouthpiece (and you........lips teeth etc).
If you think about it, taking in LESS mouthpiece then that point is just like buying a mouthpiece with a shorter facing.......if that's what you want.......buy a mouthpiece with a shorter facing!
As to the poster's notion that it is harder to play using that embouchure, the solution is......wait for it..........a softer reed! When you foreshorten a facing (play closer to the tip than the actual sweet spot) what you are doing then is more than likely bending the reed down to a the equivalent of a softer strength WHILE additionally making the mouthpiece play as if it has a smaller tip opening.
In a master class I once heard David Shifrin say to a student, "You paid $300 for that mouthpiece, play the whole mouthpiece." That might sound trite, but the idea is to avoid choking off the sound of that particular mouthpiece.
Finally though, in the video of the Philharmonia Orchestra's bass clarinet player, it also appears that he does just place his upper lip atop the mouthpiece without any sort of "tuck." This might help make it look even more daunting than it is. But the proof is in the execution. He sounds great.
.............Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2019-10-14 17:57)
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2019-10-14 18:13
Mojo wrote:
"The main thing I listen for is making the bass clarinet clarion range to sound more like the chalumeau of the soprano clarinet."
Try a german or reform boehm clarinet then. These things are insanely good in that register and would make a Manfred (and other repetoire from that time, I guess) sound so effortless. There's a technical explanation for that but better ask someone who makes them. (of course, that's what we all should try to achieve on the boehm bore, too!)
Paul, I certainly agree with you. Of course I tried shorter facings. Of course I adjusted my reed strength. But with only a #2 Legere Signature on the Concept, I'm reluctant to lower my reed strength even further. Time will tell...
Also, there where a couple of mpc options, but the one I bought was simply the best among them, without having spent any thought on facing length.
Yep, the philarmonia guy sounds great. People tend to dismiss the "basic" prestige bass as a too soprano-like horn, but that is nonsense, as it turns out. It is quite easy to blow and I was far away from his sound, so I fell for that criticism too, only to be proven very wrong now.
Post Edited (2019-10-14 18:14)
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